I understand that, I was merely clarifying your statement about the FPR.

The LT1 F-Body was not the only vehicle with a 5.7L V8...Pickups, Suburbans, Tahoes, Express vans, etc...all of which have peak HP around 3000 RPM EDIT: These (original) calculations (on previous page) are likely not from the LT1. The 5.7L V8 referenced doesnt even have to be GM, as there are other 5.7L V8s

Just because everyone does it doesnt mean it actually works, shows like mythbusters exist because of this. Can you prove why the ice works? I'll believe it if you can mathematically prove it to me. Race engines also run hotter and have hotter exhaust from high compression, race fuel, etc. than any street car will ever see. They also do not have heat shielding unless JetHot coating or a wrap has been used. Exhaust temps and underhood temperatures are much higher than on a street driven vehicle. I've been around all sorts of racing since I was a little kid and the only ones I see using ice are drag racers.

What does this have to do with the intake tract before the throttle body? If left alone, a cooler thermostat than stock can also lead to incomplete burn and carbon buildup.

Yes it is possible for the steel tube to get heated after parking, just like everything else in the engine bay will get heated. Even the engine gets hotter temporarily because the coolant is no longer being circulated through the radiator. The air left in the pipe at engine shut off would heat up, but it will be consumed as soon as you start the engine again. The hot air will be replaced with new, cooler air before you can even shift into gear. All following air will pass through the pipe and the heat will have little to no effect as the information I found confirmed.

I'm just going to post one sentence again:
"Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power"

 

Here is a dyno from a 1996LT1 WS6. The stock HP was around 310 BHP. This shows the before and after dyno from bypassing the throttle body coolant. http://www.ws6.com/mod-8.htm

There was a 6.4 HP gain which was a 2.2% gain. Peak HP occurs around 5300 RPM.

The air velocity was pretty fast through the throttle body, and in the short time the air spent there it got heated ~20F.

 

If someone were to, hypethetically speaking, ask me what I would like people to think about me?? when responding to a person,commonly known asthe classic chest pounder, who were to post messages in my thread not merely debating product I were to offer for sale, but profess to repeatedly make suggestions about what I should do in their opinion as to:
how to (most recently) run my business;
how to make my product;
how much they know about all kinds of things irrelevent to my product's application;
and how they have made different products trying to do the same thing as my product, ...........but the entire time the person so professing said unrequested suggestions knows absolutely nothing about my business, or how my product is madeor why.........afterhaving already made several polite responses to said suggestions, and left clues for the clueless said person so professing to move along skippy...............
considering the clueless professing person has their last 6 of all 139 posts in such a thread.....

I would wantpeople to think I am positive such a hypothetical person repeatedly professing as such is a DIKK, who also would be happy to tell all of us what and how we all should be doing anything because they know it all and want to share, even though the were never invited to.

Now if the said hypothetical person were invited, requested, or solicited to share their opinion as to my business strategy, how to make my product, and provide data irrelevant to my product's application, and describe what other things they have madetrying to do a similar task performed by my product, that would of course be an entirely different matter.

I would alsopeople to think that the invite made to everyone in the beginning of this thread remainsposted and does not in fact ask people to share said repeated suggestions more fully described herein above.

 

I thought this might help settle the argument;

"Since the first engine sucked in air, intake air has been heated to some extent. Remember on cars equipped with carburetors there was a large tube that connected to the air cleaner? Well the other end of that hose was connected to a heat collector around the exhaust manifold. This is how warm air got to the carburetor.
There's two reasons we want to heat the incoming air. The first is that the atomized fuel will mix with warm air better than cold air. This was actually more important with carburetted engines rather than fuel injected engines.
The second reason is to keep the throttle chamber from freezing. Yep, that's right. I said freezing. As in ice forming inside the throttle chamber.
Anyone who lives where it gets cold in the winter has heard of "wind chill". It'll be 30° with a wind chill of 10°. As the air moves through the throttle body, the same wind chill affects the inside if the throttle body. Under certain conditions, such as high humidity, condensation will form inside the throttle body and the moving air will freeze it. This ice will keep building up until it chokes off the air supply and the engine dies.
By running hot coolant through passages in the throttle body, it keeps the throttle body warm and prevents this ice from building up.
Some early fuel injected engines did not have heated throttle bodies and ice formation was such a problem that heated throttle bodies were retro fitted at the dealerships."

All I know is Heat can not be avoided wether plastic. aluminum, steel, PVC, cardboard, CF. To note we are dealing with NA engine not forced induction.So restriction is the main factor and velocity is crucial.

Oh, almost forgot, the reason for the Ice bags on the "manifolds" is because you want the air "after" the TB (CHOKE POINT) to be cooled to slightly increase HP and reduce heat soak because after you race you usaully go back into a line and wait to race again.THe reasons why the Professionals don't do it because they have time between runs and thereby the engine is allowed tocool down.

 

I think it is rude to keep comming here and bashing doc's CAI. He has tested it and desinged it how he likes just like the other 10 companys that have made thiers and most are differnt in some way. Doc is obviously very proud of his product which he should be. If his CAI isn'tyour cup of tea then go buy one from another manufacture OR get off your azz and build your own OR I bet if you asked doc to make you one slightly altered to YOUR likeing he probably would at a small extra price or even for free to test it (not trying to speak for you doc).
So far a few people here have bought and installed thiers and gave what I think to be pretty honest evaluations on it. I myself will be purchasing one one I can buy a filter for my 08 to use on it. I am impressed by looking at his set up and it looks to me to at the least be very competitive with what other manufacutres have out on the market. I would rather pay 200$ for some thing made of metal than plastic myself and certainly agree with doc that that those other guys use plastic for the cost factor not heat factor.


Doc don't forget to holla at me when you get that 08 version ready!

 

I'd like to state a personal opinion as somebody who doesn't understand half of the technical jargon going on here even though I've read it a few times:

ChevyHighPerformance has always come on here with, in my unknowledgeable opinion, good feedback and advice on mechinical questions.

Doc has also done this with me and everybody else as well.BOTH of you guys know your stuff, more-so then most of us non-gearheads do.

After reading through alot of this over and over (yes, I'm actually doing that before speaking), I just think this is turning into a how-to discussion.

Having tested Doc's product, I can tell you the bottom-line is that it DOES noticably improve many aspects of the performance of my H3. I don't sit there thinking about what is happening mechanically, but I drive it, love the performance increase, and only care about the bottom-line result.

That being said, I'm not siding with either one of you two but saying everybody has their opinions of how things should be done, and to me, someone who doesn't know the scientific results of air flow as related to performance as you guys do, I can tell you that it just seems like something that turned into a constructive suggestions back and forth (again, MY opinion)is now spiralling into the black hole abyss we know as the plague of HummerGuy, which is going from a suggestion or constructive arguement to perhaps getting ugly? I dunno.

You guys are both very knowledgeable but I think the point is this system works. Could it be done better, apparently it can in some ways, hell if I know, because all I know is" cold air makecar faster" in caveman terms,but I'll say for somebody that designed this on his own time and made us smile after it was installed, I could care less if it gets another one or two horsepower or if it should be wrapped in ICY HOT pads or parked in a refridgerator overnight

I would suggest to my friends that maybe you guys should start a new thread in the Intake section discussing your opinions.

I think we are all learning alot from you two just talking about it. I know I have. I'm just waiting for the 1.21 Gigawatts and Flex Capacitor to be thrown in here somewhere and then I'll be ALL over that

Bottom-line? Despite HOW it's made or WHAT it's made from, it works, and honestly, that's all I care about. The quality is in no professional terms, "kick-***" to me, and I will recommend it to anybody who is looking for something like it.

I can't justify spending $250 or so on something made of plastic, but that's because I'm un-educated in this area, and you guys are both teaching us all about air flow. I just can't personally spend that much money on a piece of plastic. Maybe it's special plastic? Maybe it's lined with gold? I dunno, but that's my opinion, as others.

Now for a piece of mannish-metal? I would spend it for. Does it make me feel better to buy metal over plastic? Yes. Will it make my car be a bit slower or faster? I don't care. I want durability. Steel is harder then plastic. If it means it's better or worse in performance, personally I could give two-bleeps condisering both will increase my power no matter what.

The point is us newbies and amateur engine modders don't really care about that 1 or 2 HP variance. We want something at a good price, and bottom line, THIS system is great for the money, it works VERY well, and we are happy.

Just remember us newbie engine people when we give our opinions, well, speaking for myself of course I love Docs system AND K&N's metallic-like parts system. Doesn't mean it's the best though

 

HG, did you ever golf before???

This thread was not and is not intended to be a How To. Anybody is welcome to go start one.

Anyone is welcome to criticize my product design and/or its materials.I did not invite anyone, nor do I need someguy in my thread, to tell me in their opinion what they want to do, or what I should do, or what my business should do. I did not ask for their opinion on those topics, and don't give too loose chits about them. They can do their own thing somewhere else, or tell their kids what to do.

I don't golf, but when you invite someone to come along and golf with you, do you enjoy it when the guy turns out to be a dikk who will be telling you how to shoot every shot, what club to use, how to improve your swing, and how they know it all? Even after you let them know you are not interested in there repeted golf technique suggestion? If that guy were to be golfing with me, at about the fairway to the fifth hole, he would be left standing there with a knot upside his head, but I don't golf.

 

That's what I meant Doc. That's why I said it looked like it turned into a How-to, meaning ChevyHighPerformance seemed to me to say "This is How To" design or create it. I never knocked you or meant it towards you or your product. How can I when I tested it?

See this is what I mean. I say one thing and it always gets twisted to another meaning. Then people wonder why I don't post anymore

 

So,want to gogolfing?

 

I don't Golf. My friend is semi-pro, and I tell him I think it's the most boring sport ever known to man. He tried to teach me once, and I ended up hitting someone in the head half 100 yards away when I meant to aim straight and for some reason it went 70 degrees in the other direction.

No thanks

Suffice to say, he didn't stand there critiqing me either. He just gave me some pointers and let me do my own thing, but was there when I asked for help.

I guess we all have own our opinions on how help should be handed out or asked for