when to switch to synthetic?
#12
05-30-2007, 11:12 PM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
ORIGINAL: HummBob
As SOME of you, who have know me a while, know that I'm a NOOB at anything other than having a PRETTY TRUCK, so can someone tell me:
1) Why is syntheic oil better?
2) Is it ever TOO LATE to start using synthetic
3) What is the square root of an equilateral triangle if one side is 169?
Thanks,
Bling Master
As SOME of you, who have know me a while, know that I'm a NOOB at anything other than having a PRETTY TRUCK, so can someone tell me:
1) Why is syntheic oil better?
2) Is it ever TOO LATE to start using synthetic
3) What is the square root of an equilateral triangle if one side is 169?
Thanks,
Bling Master
2/ in your particular case is certainly too late!but you can still try even in Winterpegg MIRACLES can Happen.
3/ 3876
.
#13
05-31-2007, 02:38 AM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
ORIGINAL: JM
1/ don't ask just USE IT ! period
2/ in your particular case is certainly too late!but you can still try even in Winterpegg MIRACLES can Happen.
3/ 3876
.
ORIGINAL: HummBob
As SOME of you, who have know me a while, know that I'm a NOOB at anything other than having a PRETTY TRUCK, so can someone tell me:
1) Why is syntheic oil better?
2) Is it ever TOO LATE to start using synthetic
3) What is the square root of an equilateral triangle if one side is 169?
Thanks,
Bling Master
As SOME of you, who have know me a while, know that I'm a NOOB at anything other than having a PRETTY TRUCK, so can someone tell me:
1) Why is syntheic oil better?
2) Is it ever TOO LATE to start using synthetic
3) What is the square root of an equilateral triangle if one side is 169?
Thanks,
Bling Master
2/ in your particular case is certainly too late!but you can still try even in Winterpegg MIRACLES can Happen.
3/ 3876
.[8D]
#14
05-31-2007, 08:28 AM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
Here is a link to a previous thread that had some interesting discussion on synthetic oil:
https://www.hummerforums.com/m_9832/tm.htm
#15
05-31-2007, 02:04 PM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
ORIGINAL: Trayderjoe
Here is a link to a previous thread that had some interesting discussion on synthetic oil:
https://www.hummerforums.com/m_9832/tm.htm
Here is a link to a previous thread that had some interesting discussion on synthetic oil:
https://www.hummerforums.com/m_9832/tm.htm
#16
05-31-2007, 05:54 PM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
I did plagiarize this from something I wrote on another site...
Many of the additives used in modern dyno oils over the past few years are a lot better than used in the past; thus, the modern "Starburst" symbol dyno oil last longer and is more stable than oil used even five years ago. Unless the engine is of a race design, or has limited airflow to help cool it, dyno oil is all that is required. GM (and all other manufacturers) recommend the oils that they test the engines with during development.
Synthetic will not harm the engine, but in many cases, it is not necessary. Extreme hot conditions and extreme cold conditions will see some benefit, but then again, the GM oil life system, which monitors temps at startup and during engine run, will take this into consideration. Therefore, those who live in AZ will see their oil life percentage decrease faster than those living in MI during the summer. Same holds true to those up in Alaska. Those living in moderate temp areas, with four seasons, will also notice that during the summer their oil life percentage will not decrease as fast as during a cold winter.
You will also notice a difference with your driving habits. Change the oil and go cross country and your oil life percentage will drop slowly. Change your oil and make a hundred one-mile trips to Kroger a mile away, and your oil life percentage will decrease faster.
In addition, there are two primary type of synthetics; Group IV synthetics are made with PAOs, group III are highly refined dyno oil via a process called Hydro-cracking, that is labeled synthetic oil, and is legal to do so. (Mobil sued to have the name synthetic removed from Group III oils back in the late 90's and lost.) Hydro-cracking is less expensive than using PAOs. To be honest, the inroads in the development of Group III oil have made them almost as good as Group IV. There was supposed to be a Group III+ category, but not sure if it has been released.
Last tests I saw showed that only two oils were group IV:
Mobil 1
Amsoil ASL
All other major oils, advertised as synthetic were Group III:
Castrol
Shell
Pennzoil
Valvoline
Havoline
Quaker
Amsoil (Non ASL)
It costs a lot less to manufacture Group III synthetics, but as we all know, they charge about the same as Group IV.
Now, to add confusion, there is a Group V synthetic oil based on Esters, and is used by Redline. The only true benefit of Group V is that it's high heat capabilities are superior to Group III and Group IV. A normal car/truck engine will not benefit by the use of Esters, but it certainly won't hurt. Air cooled and Jet engines benefit greatly with a Group V oil.
Another type of oil that is the "blend." When you mix a synthetic with a dyno oil, the oil takes on the characteristics of the lowest group type used. Therefore, a blend oil is basically worthless. If you are considering a blend, you might as well save your money and go with a dyno or pay more and go with a synthetic.
Most important factor, is always use the recommended spec, or a spec that exceeds the spec for your engine. This is important on systems using oil life monitoring systems. The system algorithms are developed knowing the rate of decline of the oil approved with that spec. Using an oil without that spec would make the system inaccurate. So, the oil life indicator might indicate 50%, but the oil is really degraded to around 30%. Using an oil with a greater spec (synthetic), would also make the oil life monitoring system inaccurate, but won't harm the engine. With an oil that exceeds the spec, the oil life system may show a percentage of 50%, but the oil life is actually at around 70%.
Many of the additives used in modern dyno oils over the past few years are a lot better than used in the past; thus, the modern "Starburst" symbol dyno oil last longer and is more stable than oil used even five years ago. Unless the engine is of a race design, or has limited airflow to help cool it, dyno oil is all that is required. GM (and all other manufacturers) recommend the oils that they test the engines with during development.
Synthetic will not harm the engine, but in many cases, it is not necessary. Extreme hot conditions and extreme cold conditions will see some benefit, but then again, the GM oil life system, which monitors temps at startup and during engine run, will take this into consideration. Therefore, those who live in AZ will see their oil life percentage decrease faster than those living in MI during the summer. Same holds true to those up in Alaska. Those living in moderate temp areas, with four seasons, will also notice that during the summer their oil life percentage will not decrease as fast as during a cold winter.
You will also notice a difference with your driving habits. Change the oil and go cross country and your oil life percentage will drop slowly. Change your oil and make a hundred one-mile trips to Kroger a mile away, and your oil life percentage will decrease faster.
In addition, there are two primary type of synthetics; Group IV synthetics are made with PAOs, group III are highly refined dyno oil via a process called Hydro-cracking, that is labeled synthetic oil, and is legal to do so. (Mobil sued to have the name synthetic removed from Group III oils back in the late 90's and lost.) Hydro-cracking is less expensive than using PAOs. To be honest, the inroads in the development of Group III oil have made them almost as good as Group IV. There was supposed to be a Group III+ category, but not sure if it has been released.
Last tests I saw showed that only two oils were group IV:
Mobil 1
Amsoil ASL
All other major oils, advertised as synthetic were Group III:
Castrol
Shell
Pennzoil
Valvoline
Havoline
Quaker
Amsoil (Non ASL)
It costs a lot less to manufacture Group III synthetics, but as we all know, they charge about the same as Group IV.
Now, to add confusion, there is a Group V synthetic oil based on Esters, and is used by Redline. The only true benefit of Group V is that it's high heat capabilities are superior to Group III and Group IV. A normal car/truck engine will not benefit by the use of Esters, but it certainly won't hurt. Air cooled and Jet engines benefit greatly with a Group V oil.
Another type of oil that is the "blend." When you mix a synthetic with a dyno oil, the oil takes on the characteristics of the lowest group type used. Therefore, a blend oil is basically worthless. If you are considering a blend, you might as well save your money and go with a dyno or pay more and go with a synthetic.
Most important factor, is always use the recommended spec, or a spec that exceeds the spec for your engine. This is important on systems using oil life monitoring systems. The system algorithms are developed knowing the rate of decline of the oil approved with that spec. Using an oil without that spec would make the system inaccurate. So, the oil life indicator might indicate 50%, but the oil is really degraded to around 30%. Using an oil with a greater spec (synthetic), would also make the oil life monitoring system inaccurate, but won't harm the engine. With an oil that exceeds the spec, the oil life system may show a percentage of 50%, but the oil life is actually at around 70%.
#17
06-01-2007, 08:53 AM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
Dennis posted some very good and useful information on how the quality of oil is measured. He has me convinced enough to put Castrol in my H3 when I change it this month. Based on his information I started doing some research and it turns out Castrol Syntec is one of the top oils for not having viscosity breakdown and retaining it's lubrication properties. I'll see if I can find his post with the information. It's definitely worth reading.
That, and there is about 23458584747 other threads about this
That, and there is about 23458584747 other threads about this
#18
06-01-2007, 09:57 AM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
Thanks Mikey..here is the Amsoils research and they put them selfs on top and Castrol Syntec second..But this is a standard for the lubrication industry not just Amsoil.
http://www.synthetic-oil-online.com/..._wear_test.htm
http://www.synthetic-oil-online.com/..._wear_test.htm
#19
06-01-2007, 01:19 PM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
One thing I've heard form several oil experts..is that once you switch to using Synthetics, you should never go back to conventional dino oils....I don't know if that is a bunch of Canadian goose crap...but I won't try and prove it wrong.
#20
06-01-2007, 03:12 PM
RE: when to switch to synthetic?
ORIGINAL: Dennis
One thing I've heard form several oil experts..is that once you switch to using Synthetics, you should never go back to conventional dino oils....I don't know if that is a bunch of Canadian goose crap...but I won't try and prove it wrong.
One thing I've heard form several oil experts..is that once you switch to using Synthetics, you should never go back to conventional dino oils....I don't know if that is a bunch of Canadian goose crap...but I won't try and prove it wrong.