Potential Engine Seizure
#11
02-16-2018, 09:58 PM
Okay. Well if you want to have any chance at salvaging things on the cheap you first and foremost need to be careful and do NOT pry or beat on anything. Also do NOT attempt to start the engine in any way until something has been determined and that you can safely do so without damaging anything or causing further damage. There is a real possibility with only the few seconds of running that the engine might be able to be saved with out a huge expense.
You have 5 flat sections with bolt heads, those are your main bearing caps. Then you have the individual rods with 2 bolts on the end of each. Those are your rod bearing caps. Both have extremely tight tolerances and require specific amounts of torque when being installed. Everything must stay clean, oil is fine but introducing any sort of grit, dirt, etc can help to quickly destroy bearings.
Being in unfamiliar territory your really only have a few options. One, get it towed to an engine specialist. Two get or find someone who knows a good bit about this to come over for some beer and have them look. Three start spending a good number of hours on google looking at pictures, watching videos, and reading about rod and main bearings specifically in generation III and IV GM LS engines. It would be beneficial to have certain tools like a digital caliper to mic the journals to verify their dimensions, etc. Realistically, I'd have to reccomend asking around, maybe even dropping by a machine shop or two and explain things and potentially beg and offer to pay a guy to come by after work and at least take a peek at things.
I'm not certain on out Hummers but I know on a full size GM truck it is possible to replace the rod bearings and even the main bearings from underneath with the engine still in the vehicle. Its not exactly easy. It is also not exactly rocket science but it must be done right or you will have severe engine problems. You really need to get some plastigages which are extremely thin little plastic strips that help determine if bearings and in their proper tolerances. Once a rod or main cap is removed (never pry to get one off, a very very light tap with a plastic mallet if anything) the actual bearing and journal surfaces can be inspected. To remove the actual bearing it must be done from a specific direction.
It is really too much to try and write in something like this. You need to read and learn about this stuff to have any decent chance at possibly fixing it. There are literally tons of pictures of bearing surfaces online as well as pictures and even videos of engine teardowns which will detail removing bearing caps, bearings, inspecting the journals, using a plastigage, etc.
You have 5 flat sections with bolt heads, those are your main bearing caps. Then you have the individual rods with 2 bolts on the end of each. Those are your rod bearing caps. Both have extremely tight tolerances and require specific amounts of torque when being installed. Everything must stay clean, oil is fine but introducing any sort of grit, dirt, etc can help to quickly destroy bearings.
Being in unfamiliar territory your really only have a few options. One, get it towed to an engine specialist. Two get or find someone who knows a good bit about this to come over for some beer and have them look. Three start spending a good number of hours on google looking at pictures, watching videos, and reading about rod and main bearings specifically in generation III and IV GM LS engines. It would be beneficial to have certain tools like a digital caliper to mic the journals to verify their dimensions, etc. Realistically, I'd have to reccomend asking around, maybe even dropping by a machine shop or two and explain things and potentially beg and offer to pay a guy to come by after work and at least take a peek at things.
I'm not certain on out Hummers but I know on a full size GM truck it is possible to replace the rod bearings and even the main bearings from underneath with the engine still in the vehicle. Its not exactly easy. It is also not exactly rocket science but it must be done right or you will have severe engine problems. You really need to get some plastigages which are extremely thin little plastic strips that help determine if bearings and in their proper tolerances. Once a rod or main cap is removed (never pry to get one off, a very very light tap with a plastic mallet if anything) the actual bearing and journal surfaces can be inspected. To remove the actual bearing it must be done from a specific direction.
It is really too much to try and write in something like this. You need to read and learn about this stuff to have any decent chance at possibly fixing it. There are literally tons of pictures of bearing surfaces online as well as pictures and even videos of engine teardowns which will detail removing bearing caps, bearings, inspecting the journals, using a plastigage, etc.
So, after watching that video....I'm definitely not tackling this. Based on my other research, I will end up spending roughly $500 on parts, another $500 to $750 at a machine shop and probably somewhere in the 20 - 30 hr range to complete the work. Not included is all of the time I will spend researching, watching, learning, obtaining tools, working without a lift, and hoping it all works out. Truthfully, I don't have the necessary to invest into this project. As we know, time is money. I work a substantial amount and don't want to take away from my money making activities to save $1,000 or so.
The quotes I have received from machine shops to "rebuild the entire engine" taking into account they provide all of the parts, labor, and throw in some "performance" parts....I'm sitting at $2,500 to $3,000 at a minimum. Most of the quotes were $3,500 to $4,000. They don't offer a warranty and most of them don't like the idea of "just rebuilding" a stock LQ4.
So, I think I'm going the remanufactured route.
#12
02-17-2018, 07:38 AM
Probably the safest route as any other choice is to spend money and "hope for the best". That being said - there is a slight possibility that you could just replace the bearings for a couple hundred bucks and get another hundred thousand miles out of her. There is of course a slightly higher possibility that it would be money and time wasted.
As you said. One must weigh the pro's and con's. If you have tons of free time then it probably would be worth giving the bearings a go. I know I sure don't, I've been working 80+ hour weeks for over a year now dealing with 2 businesses and 22,00SF of commercial property....
As you said. One must weigh the pro's and con's. If you have tons of free time then it probably would be worth giving the bearings a go. I know I sure don't, I've been working 80+ hour weeks for over a year now dealing with 2 businesses and 22,00SF of commercial property....
#13
02-17-2018, 08:06 AM
You can save yourself at least $1500 if you can remove and replace the engine yourself. I think you made a good choice to go with a rebuilt motor. I would do a GM engine. Then you have a 3 year warranty at an GM dealer in the country. Scoggin dickey used to be a good crate motor source. I would check with them and your local GM dealer.
#14
02-17-2018, 09:51 AM
Just some advice. Rebuilding an old SBC is nothing like the LS engine in the Hummer.
There would be obvious damage if it was a major failure. If you are planning on considering this a total loss, why not at least pull the heads off and take a look topside?
Reman engine can be had all day long for under $3,000 for a long block with a warranty. Shop around.
Tim
There would be obvious damage if it was a major failure. If you are planning on considering this a total loss, why not at least pull the heads off and take a look topside?
Reman engine can be had all day long for under $3,000 for a long block with a warranty. Shop around.
Tim
#15
02-27-2018, 02:35 PM
Probably the safest route as any other choice is to spend money and "hope for the best". That being said - there is a slight possibility that you could just replace the bearings for a couple hundred bucks and get another hundred thousand miles out of her. There is of course a slightly higher possibility that it would be money and time wasted.
As you said. One must weigh the pro's and con's. If you have tons of free time then it probably would be worth giving the bearings a go. I know I sure don't, I've been working 80+ hour weeks for over a year now dealing with 2 businesses and 22,00SF of commercial property....
As you said. One must weigh the pro's and con's. If you have tons of free time then it probably would be worth giving the bearings a go. I know I sure don't, I've been working 80+ hour weeks for over a year now dealing with 2 businesses and 22,00SF of commercial property....
I have also pulled the valve covers. Not sure what to look for to confirm more damage. Safe to confirm a replacement engine is the way to go?
Regarding work....that's awesome! Congrats on the businesses and real estate!
#16
02-27-2018, 02:36 PM
You can save yourself at least $1500 if you can remove and replace the engine yourself. I think you made a good choice to go with a rebuilt motor. I would do a GM engine. Then you have a 3 year warranty at an GM dealer in the country. Scoggin dickey used to be a good crate motor source. I would check with them and your local GM dealer.
#17
02-27-2018, 02:38 PM
Just some advice. Rebuilding an old SBC is nothing like the LS engine in the Hummer.
There would be obvious damage if it was a major failure. If you are planning on considering this a total loss, why not at least pull the heads off and take a look topside?
Reman engine can be had all day long for under $3,000 for a long block with a warranty. Shop around.
Tim
There would be obvious damage if it was a major failure. If you are planning on considering this a total loss, why not at least pull the heads off and take a look topside?
Reman engine can be had all day long for under $3,000 for a long block with a warranty. Shop around.
Tim
Figured I would start removing engine to make core swap easier. Might as well tinker with my seized block so more to keep learning.
#18
02-27-2018, 02:45 PM
So, I disappeared due to work and more unexpected activities. Now, back to the H2....
So....it seems the oil pick up tube was installed incorrectly. One of the retaining bolts is missing. I have no idea why as I recall fastening both bolts. Safe to say there wasn't enough oil pressure to keep engine lubricated and the thing seized.
I find it very good that the engine took soooo long, before seizing. Sounds crazy, but I'm really impressed with the LQ4. I probably started the vehicle 12 times before it started experiencing "hard start" symptoms. Over the course of the starts, I replaced my stepper motors and my oil pressure gauge would go from no pressure to max pressure. At the time, I thought the sensor was out. I guess not. My engine's oil pressure was all over the place b/c the oil pick up tube was not properly seated causing erratic readings.
So, that's my conclusion. Any ideas? Am I crazy? Does it make sense? Expensive lesson....
So....it seems the oil pick up tube was installed incorrectly. One of the retaining bolts is missing. I have no idea why as I recall fastening both bolts. Safe to say there wasn't enough oil pressure to keep engine lubricated and the thing seized.
I find it very good that the engine took soooo long, before seizing. Sounds crazy, but I'm really impressed with the LQ4. I probably started the vehicle 12 times before it started experiencing "hard start" symptoms. Over the course of the starts, I replaced my stepper motors and my oil pressure gauge would go from no pressure to max pressure. At the time, I thought the sensor was out. I guess not. My engine's oil pressure was all over the place b/c the oil pick up tube was not properly seated causing erratic readings.
So, that's my conclusion. Any ideas? Am I crazy? Does it make sense? Expensive lesson....
#19
02-27-2018, 05:19 PM
Its probably toast then. It would have a salvage value as long as you told the person buying it the whole story. Since the issue was pick up tube related there is no need to take the top end apart to look.
Best of luck with the replacement.
Tim
Best of luck with the replacement.
Tim
#20
02-27-2018, 06:18 PM
I'd have to agree. If the pickup tube was off or unable to pull oil then no need to really pull anymore off. It should be rebuildable though. Probably going to need a new set of rings, cylinders honed, may as well replace all the lower bearings. Upper end should be okay, especially considering how little it was run that way.