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4L60-E Trans Question, Drive or 3rd Gear for City Driving
Hummer H3For the Hummer driver who wants the rugged look and off road capabilities of the Hummer, but in a smaller size and with a more fuel economy friendly engine.
The 4L60 was designed in times when people were taught to drive around town in “3” to avoid the unnecessary shifts to 4th Gear, the 3-4 and 4-3 are extremely harsh on an overdrive transmission. So any shift involving 3rd or 4th requires the TCC to be disengaged, then the shift sequence of events to happen, then the TCC to be reapplied. The TCC is one of the more failure prone components in the transmission. GM did us a huge disservice by switching the transmission gear labels from “D” to “3” and “OD” to “D”. Stop them from shifting 3-4-3-4-3-4 and the 4L60 will outlast the whole Hummer.
That's funny, cuz I'm 60 years old, and was indeed driving around prior to 4 speed automatics. I was never "taught" to avoid unnecessary 3-4 and 4-3 shifts when 4 speeds came around. And I'm not even going to respond to the claim that the TCC is "one of the more failure prone components in the transmission", as that has certainly not been my experience (in fact, in 45 years of driving, I've never had a TCC failure, nor do I know of anyone who has).
That's funny, cuz I'm 60 years old, and was indeed driving around prior to 4 speed automatics. I was never "taught" to avoid unnecessary 3-4 and 4-3 shifts when 4 speeds came around. And I'm not even going to respond to the claim that the TCC is "one of the more failure prone components in the transmission", as that has certainly not been my experience (in fact, in 45 years of driving, I've never had a TCC failure, nor do I know of anyone who has).
You have a couple years on me, however I've spent 40+yrs in automotive repair. Simple math for you: clutch plates wear, just like brake pads, if you don't use your brake pads, they don't wear, same with clutch plates.
You have a couple years on me, however I've spent 40+yrs in automotive repair. Simple math for you: clutch plates wear, just like brake pads, if you don't use your brake pads, they don't wear, same with clutch plates.
That is all very interesting, but... I see absolutely nothing there (or anywhere, for that matter) that suggests using only 3rd instead of OD will have ANY effect on tranny life (particularly not doubling it to 300,000mi).
That is all very interesting, but... I see absolutely nothing there (or anywhere, for that matter) that suggests using only 3rd instead of OD will have ANY effect on tranny life (particularly not doubling it to 300,000mi).
What are you missing? I've had customers easily clear 300k+ driving with the 4l60e. Point being: shifts cause wear, more shifts>more wear. Drop your pan and check for clutch material.
You have a couple years on me, however I've spent 40+yrs in automotive repair. Simple math for you: clutch plates wear, just like brake pads, if you don't use your brake pads, they don't wear, same with clutch plates.
Exactly, I don't understand why people just can't understand this. It's pretty obvious, more shifting = more wear, less shifting = less wear. Hence, why it says to use 3rd gear also when normal driving in the owners manual. I completely agree with you.
Except you are using information that is obsolete. Like people who change their oil every 3,000 miles, even though their GM vehicle is equipped with OLMS which tells you when to change the oil when it is needed, long after 3,000 miles.
Every time you move/drive, the AT is used, 1st & 2nd don't just wear out, but they get used the most every start & stop etc... Ride a bike if you want your AT to last forever.
Except you are using information that is obsolete. Like people who change their oil every 3,000 miles, even though their GM vehicle is equipped with OLMS which tells you when to change the oil when it is needed, long after 3,000 miles.
Every time you move/drive, the AT is used, 1st & 2nd don't just wear out, but they get used the most every start & stop etc... Ride a bike if you want your AT to last forever.
Why would anyone put faith on the OLMS? No wonder people's engines are always blown up. I don't trust the OLMS as far as I could throw it. I wish no Hummers came with the OLMS, it's completely useless unless you want problems down the road.
Except you are using information that is obsolete. Like people who change their oil every 3,000 miles, even though their GM vehicle is equipped with OLMS which tells you when to change the oil when it is needed, long after 3,000 miles.
Every time you move/drive, the AT is used, 1st & 2nd don't just wear out, but they get used the most every start & stop etc... Ride a bike if you want your AT to last forever.
Rely on the OLS? I've NEVER received a change oil message. Instead, I change oil & filter when dirty and/or at least once a year! 2007 HUMMER H3 Owner Manual page 326:
It is possible that, if you are driving under the best conditions,
the oil life system may not indicate that an oil
change is necessary for over a year. However, your engine oil and filter must be changed at
least once a year
What are you missing? I've had customers easily clear 300k+ driving with the 4l60e. Point being: shifts cause wear, more shifts>more wear. Drop your pan and check for clutch material.
Another cool video...that does NOT claim that excessive shifting from 3rd to 4th (OD) caused the failure. The takeaway from the video is to change the fluid often, NOT to only use D while on the highway. And MOST 4L60 transmissions do NOT last 300,000 miles (nor do most of the engines attached to them). Oh wait, I suppose that every one that you've seen go 300,000 miles only shifted to D while on the highway?
Originally Posted by Xplosion21
Exactly, I don't understand why people just can't understand this. It's pretty obvious, more shifting = more wear, less shifting = less wear. Hence, why it says to use 3rd gear also when normal driving in the owners manual. I completely agree with you.
And just where in the manual does it say that? Here's from MY manual:
"DRIVE (D): This position is for normal driving.
It provides the best fuel economy for your vehicle.
DRIVE (D) can be used when towing a trailer. You may
want to shift the transmission to THIRD (3) or, if
necessary, a lower gear if the transmission shifts too
often under heavy loads and/or hilly conditions.
THIRD (3): This position is also used for normal
driving. However it reduces vehicle speed more than
DRIVE (D) without using your brakes. You might
choose THIRD (3) instead of DRIVE (D) when driving
on hilly, winding roads, when towing a trailer, so there
is less shifting between gears and when going down
a steep hill."
Nowhere in (my) manual does it say to use 3rd while normal driving to minimize shifts. Nowhere. It only says to use 3rd to minimize shifts under heavy loads and windy, hilly roads. That is to minimize strain of the entire drivetrain constantly shifting back and forth. And as Doc says, if excessive shifts cause the trans to wear out, why does the 1/2 shift not wear out most often? You guys need to learn that correlation does not mean causation; By your logic, drinking milk leads to heroin abuse, since it's likely that every heroin user drank milk as a child! But hey, you do you and I'll do me. Go ahead and use only 3rd in town, thinking that it will extend the life of your tranny, and I'll use D, the way the tranny was designed to be used.
