is this normal?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 378
Doc- GM has their own house brand of fuel system cleaner using Naphtha as it's primary solvent. GM Parts Direct: 88861011 - GM FUEL SYSTEM TREATEMENT PLUS
And a Google search found this updated GM Service Bulletin regarding the use of their fuel additive:
Info - GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, Fuel Sending Unit Corrosion and Fuel System Deposits #05-00-89-078A - (09/14/2006), http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/d...00-89-078a.pdf
Note the vehicles this particular bulletin applies to:
Models:
2007 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (including Saturn)
2003-2007 HUMMER H2
2006-2007 HUMMER H3
2005-2007 Saab 9-7X
Just pour in one bottle of the GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS into the fuel tank when refueling around each oil change interval:
• Cleans -- Sulfur corrosion from fuel gauge sending units.
• Prevents -- Harmful sulfur components from attacking sensitive fuel system electronics.
• Protects -- By coating metallic surfaces of the fuel system.
There is a ton of published data supporting the ability of Naphtha based solvents in removing carbon fouling from combustion chambers. Go to any local Marine shop and ask them what they use to treat carbon buildup. (Carbon fouling is the number one concern in marine engines).
I have personally used Seafoam on both marine and auto motors and the effects are readily visible. First hand experience.
I used to use SeaFoam annually on my marine motor and inspected the piston tops with a bore light (with the plugs removed the pistion tops were easily visible). The results were impressive to say the least. The thick carbon layer was nearly entirely removed and the casting marks on the pistons would be clearly visible after treatment. This is in the combustion chamber.
When using Naphtha based solvents, I purposely back vehicles, both boats and autos, out into the street to keep the black carbon gunk from spraying out the exhaust onto my garage door and driveway.
First hand experience here.
And a Google search found this updated GM Service Bulletin regarding the use of their fuel additive:
Info - GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, Fuel Sending Unit Corrosion and Fuel System Deposits #05-00-89-078A - (09/14/2006), http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/tsb/d...00-89-078a.pdf
Note the vehicles this particular bulletin applies to:
Models:
2007 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (including Saturn)
2003-2007 HUMMER H2
2006-2007 HUMMER H3
2005-2007 Saab 9-7X
Note the listed benefits:
Just pour in one bottle of the GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS into the fuel tank when refueling around each oil change interval:
• Cleans -- Sulfur corrosion from fuel gauge sending units.
• Prevents -- Harmful sulfur components from attacking sensitive fuel system electronics.
• Protects -- By coating metallic surfaces of the fuel system.
• Removes -- Engine deposits left from use of poor quality fuels.
Naphtha also happens to be the base solvent in SeaFoam Motor Treatment. Same stuff as the GM additive.
There is a ton of published data supporting the ability of Naphtha based solvents in removing carbon fouling from combustion chambers. Go to any local Marine shop and ask them what they use to treat carbon buildup. (Carbon fouling is the number one concern in marine engines).
I have personally used Seafoam on both marine and auto motors and the effects are readily visible. First hand experience.
I used to use SeaFoam annually on my marine motor and inspected the piston tops with a bore light (with the plugs removed the pistion tops were easily visible). The results were impressive to say the least. The thick carbon layer was nearly entirely removed and the casting marks on the pistons would be clearly visible after treatment. This is in the combustion chamber.
When using Naphtha based solvents, I purposely back vehicles, both boats and autos, out into the street to keep the black carbon gunk from spraying out the exhaust onto my garage door and driveway.
First hand experience here.
Last edited by Xlr8n; Jun 13, 2012 at 03:39 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 378
Sorry smigelskijk, I didn't mean to start an additve debate on your thread! lol
I'd just suggest you do some research on the subject and decide for yourself whether it may benefit your situation.
Oh, And welcome to the forum and congrats on the H3 purchase. Enjoy!
I'd just suggest you do some research on the subject and decide for yourself whether it may benefit your situation.
Oh, And welcome to the forum and congrats on the H3 purchase. Enjoy!
Last edited by Xlr8n; Jun 13, 2012 at 02:59 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,005
Whats What?
I've been thinking about gas additives and not sure. Then one guy says GM wants nothing to do with them after testing them. The next guy puts up a link to a GM bullitin singing praises about additives. How can there be such different opinions on this?
I feel safe with the GM data and recommendation.Thanks for the link.
I feel safe with the GM data and recommendation.Thanks for the link.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,126
From: SE Michigan
Just make sure you guys check your dates on any GM data. GM tends to flip-flop more than Osama Obama on a lot of subjects.
The bulliten posted was supposidly from 09/14/2006.
Heck, they (GM) changed the recommendations (flip-flpooed) on what fluid to use in the t-case (exactly the same from 07-10) 4 or 5 times since then. So the best bet is to check with YOUR servicing dealer in the area and see wht they say.
Personal note:
-SeaFoam: I have used it in our JD Tractor, 01 XJ, various push mowers, blowers and weedk wackers. I don't know why, but the stuff works.
-Techtron: I use to put it in every 2500 miles and when I changed my oil. I used Costco Fuel. I have since switched to Shell fuel and haven't noticed a need for the Techtron (it's already in there).
-I recently saw while at Costco that they now have a Techtron "like" substance in their fuel but I can't find any info on what it is or what it does.
The bulliten posted was supposidly from 09/14/2006.
Heck, they (GM) changed the recommendations (flip-flpooed) on what fluid to use in the t-case (exactly the same from 07-10) 4 or 5 times since then. So the best bet is to check with YOUR servicing dealer in the area and see wht they say.
Personal note:
-SeaFoam: I have used it in our JD Tractor, 01 XJ, various push mowers, blowers and weedk wackers. I don't know why, but the stuff works.
-Techtron: I use to put it in every 2500 miles and when I changed my oil. I used Costco Fuel. I have since switched to Shell fuel and haven't noticed a need for the Techtron (it's already in there).
-I recently saw while at Costco that they now have a Techtron "like" substance in their fuel but I can't find any info on what it is or what it does.
Last edited by TAINTER; Jun 13, 2012 at 11:35 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,083
From: Boat Town USA MI
These people known as "Maintenance Engineers" (comical in itself and a whole other story) come up with this stuff.
This is the same kind of debate that involves what Octane gas to use, no matter what the facts are, some people are just going to do what they think in there own head must be good, so............. like I said before, if you want to think magic in a bottle is worth the dough........... then GM will get in on it and sell you some at the dealer.
Those tests I referred to at GM's Tech Center earlier involved bringing in old GM and high mileage vehicles, disassembling the top of the motors for inspection, reassembly, adding the magic, and then disassembly again for comparison.
Anyway, I hope our OP cleaned his MAF and TB??
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 378
I agree completely with you that the manufacturers will attempt to sell any product they can make a buck off of in the after sale, but the bottom line here is the fact that this specific product is included in actual GM Technical Service Bulletins and is now the #1 step for addressing the common fuel sending unit issues that GM vehicles have been plagued with, and is proven to work well in that regard rather than replacing the sending unit altogether.
In addition the engineers at GM also deemed it worthy of recommendation for cleaning injectors, fuel lines, and combustion chamber deposits in that same bulletin.
Furthermore, here's another separate GM Service Bulletin which includes the use of GM Fuel System Plus cleaner in their protocol to free up sticking valves:
For the purpose of slanting your argument, you are now attempting to lump all fuell additives on the market today in a single group. I agree there are many worthless additives on the market today. I don't think anyone here is denying that point. But in reality they vary in quality from completely worthless, to well engineered and very functional. Much the same as nearly any type of product. Some are good, some are junk. The consumer needs to research and educate themselves.
In any case, I have no problem agreeing to disagree on this issue from this point on. I feel I have adequately supported my views.
I simply go by what I have experienced in first hand actual use, and what GM has recommended to their mechanics and included in their Service protocols.
In addition the engineers at GM also deemed it worthy of recommendation for cleaning injectors, fuel lines, and combustion chamber deposits in that same bulletin.
Furthermore, here's another separate GM Service Bulletin which includes the use of GM Fuel System Plus cleaner in their protocol to free up sticking valves:
Subject:
Crank No Start When Cold Due To Compression Loss - keywords cylinder cylinderhead extended hard head lifter loss #PIP3146B - (11/09/2006)
Models:
2000-2007 All Passenger Cars with Gasoline Engines
2000-2007 All Light Duty Trucks with Gasoline Engines
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:
Crank no start when cold. The engine may crank over very fast, as if there is low/no compression. It may also run rough for up to 5 minutes after starting the engine and may exhibit a P0300 DTC too. This may be caused by sticking valves due to fuel contamination. When the engine is cold, the compression on multiple cylinders may be at 0 PSI. The engine also may pop through the intake or exhaust while cranking and the spark plugs may be fuel fouled when inspected. Some engines may also experience valve damage or cam followers that are out of position as a result of this.
This condition will normally occur in specific areas of the country for a period of time and then it will no longer occur after the suspect fuel source has been consumed in that area of the country.
Recommendation/Instructions:
If the SI Diagnosis lead to a compression loss due to sticking valves, the following information may help:
If there is no sign of valve damage or cam followers that are out of place, perform the following procedure to free up sticking valves and to prevent the valves from sticking again. If valve damage is present or if there are cam followers that are out of place, perform engine mechanical repairs as necessary to correct the concern and then perform the procedure below to prevent the valves from sticking again.
[ol]Clean the fuel system by following the applicable "Fuel System Cleaning" procedure outlined in SI.
Add fuel injector cleaner "GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, P/N 88861011 (for U.S. ACDelcoŽ, use 88861013) (in Canada, 88861012)" . . . see bulletin # 05-00-89-078A, to the fuel tank in the approved quantities.
Refill the fuel tank using fuel from a high volume, high quality filling station.
Clean the induction system using GM Top Engine Cleaner. Follow the directions on the can but DO NOT force the engine to stall since forcing the engine to stall with liquid Top Engine Cleaner could cause the engine to hydro-lock.
Advise the customer to change fuel filling stations. They should use fuel from only high volume, high quality filling stations or they should use a Top Tier Detergent Gasoline if available. See 04-06-04-047F (U.S.) or 05-06-04-022B (Canada) for details regarding Top Tier Detergent Gasolines. [/ol]
Note: If the condition is not eliminated chemically, it may be necessary to remove the valves to manually clean the stems.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
Crank No Start When Cold Due To Compression Loss - keywords cylinder cylinderhead extended hard head lifter loss #PIP3146B - (11/09/2006)
Models:
2000-2007 All Passenger Cars with Gasoline Engines
2000-2007 All Light Duty Trucks with Gasoline Engines
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:
Crank no start when cold. The engine may crank over very fast, as if there is low/no compression. It may also run rough for up to 5 minutes after starting the engine and may exhibit a P0300 DTC too. This may be caused by sticking valves due to fuel contamination. When the engine is cold, the compression on multiple cylinders may be at 0 PSI. The engine also may pop through the intake or exhaust while cranking and the spark plugs may be fuel fouled when inspected. Some engines may also experience valve damage or cam followers that are out of position as a result of this.
This condition will normally occur in specific areas of the country for a period of time and then it will no longer occur after the suspect fuel source has been consumed in that area of the country.
Recommendation/Instructions:
If the SI Diagnosis lead to a compression loss due to sticking valves, the following information may help:
If there is no sign of valve damage or cam followers that are out of place, perform the following procedure to free up sticking valves and to prevent the valves from sticking again. If valve damage is present or if there are cam followers that are out of place, perform engine mechanical repairs as necessary to correct the concern and then perform the procedure below to prevent the valves from sticking again.
[ol]Clean the fuel system by following the applicable "Fuel System Cleaning" procedure outlined in SI.
Add fuel injector cleaner "GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, P/N 88861011 (for U.S. ACDelcoŽ, use 88861013) (in Canada, 88861012)" . . . see bulletin # 05-00-89-078A, to the fuel tank in the approved quantities.
Refill the fuel tank using fuel from a high volume, high quality filling station.
Clean the induction system using GM Top Engine Cleaner. Follow the directions on the can but DO NOT force the engine to stall since forcing the engine to stall with liquid Top Engine Cleaner could cause the engine to hydro-lock.
Advise the customer to change fuel filling stations. They should use fuel from only high volume, high quality filling stations or they should use a Top Tier Detergent Gasoline if available. See 04-06-04-047F (U.S.) or 05-06-04-022B (Canada) for details regarding Top Tier Detergent Gasolines. [/ol]
Note: If the condition is not eliminated chemically, it may be necessary to remove the valves to manually clean the stems.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
In any case, I have no problem agreeing to disagree on this issue from this point on. I feel I have adequately supported my views.
I simply go by what I have experienced in first hand actual use, and what GM has recommended to their mechanics and included in their Service protocols.
Last edited by Xlr8n; Jun 14, 2012 at 10:09 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,005
?, Xlr8n
I wondered about this;
"When using Naphtha based solvents, I purposely back vehicles, both boats and autos, out into the street to keep the black carbon gunk from spraying out the exhaust onto my garage door and driveway."
How much gunk would come thru the cats and muffler? Would or could it plug the cat?
Which would you recommend for a good running 3.7 with about 35000 mi.
"When using Naphtha based solvents, I purposely back vehicles, both boats and autos, out into the street to keep the black carbon gunk from spraying out the exhaust onto my garage door and driveway."
How much gunk would come thru the cats and muffler? Would or could it plug the cat?
Which would you recommend for a good running 3.7 with about 35000 mi.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 378
I wondered about this;
"When using Naphtha based solvents, I purposely back vehicles, both boats and autos, out into the street to keep the black carbon gunk from spraying out the exhaust onto my garage door and driveway."
How much gunk would come thru the cats and muffler? Would or could it plug the cat?
Which would you recommend for a good running 3.7 with about 35000 mi.
"When using Naphtha based solvents, I purposely back vehicles, both boats and autos, out into the street to keep the black carbon gunk from spraying out the exhaust onto my garage door and driveway."
How much gunk would come thru the cats and muffler? Would or could it plug the cat?
Which would you recommend for a good running 3.7 with about 35000 mi.
For your motor a treatment of Techron, GM Plus, or Seafoam in a tank of fuel may help clean any contamination of the sending unit, fuel injectors, and any trace combustion deposits. Those are the only 3 additives that I would personally recommend.