I'm hoping some of the shop guys here can help me with some labor hour questions on some things. I would love to know the "book hours" and what you actually charge if at all possible.

The first one is the hours for an engine swap in a 2000. (6.5td for 6.5td)
(From what I've read, this falls somewhere between 16-20 hours.)

Next would be how many extra hours if you're using a new long block and need to swap injectors, turbo, etc over to the new long block.
(I would guess somewhere around 5 hours for this considering both engines would be out of the truck and sitting next to each other.)

The last one is the hours to change the heater core.
(From what I've read, this should be somewhere between 6-8 hours.)

Also as far as the heater core, it was perfectly fine before the engine threw a rod. I don't really see how blowing the engine could have damaged the heater core (it shut off immediately when the rod went through the oil pan), but at the same time, I don't see how the shop changing the engine could have damaged it either. Could it just be a coincidence?

I just got the bill from a shop that was WAY over the hours I was expecting and I'm trying to see if I'm justified in arguing with them, or if I'm just dead wrong on what I thought the hours should be.

If you're a shop and not comfortable quoting hours publicly, please either PM me or just provide what you show for "book hours" for each of the above.

 

is it the hours or the cost of labor per hour. What are they charging. so roughly 30 hours at 125.00 hr is $3750.00

 

I don't have any issue with the labor rate, and it's a much less relevant factor since it can change pretty drastically depending on where you're located.
I'm just trying to figure out the actual amount of time that I should have been billed for because it was a lot higher than the times I've read from other people's experiences.

 

How many hours did you get billed for? Was it a long block p400 or a used fully dressed gep 6.5td or was it some 6.5td that was for a step van that was made to work. Were new parts used or were a lot of the old parts swaped over to a longblock. It will be higher than normal if the truck has rust or a lot of aftermarket electronics. Did you get a estimate prior to the work being done? Normally when you pull a engine there are some other things that are replaced while your in there. Was the radiator rodded while it was out etc.. I dont know where you got 16-20 to replace a engine with a long block but thats just crazy.

 

I'm really curious on where you came up with this random 16 to 20 hour number. Was this just a number that came to mind or you thought sounded good. Was this based on any factual information or previous work experience at all ? Sounds like a pipe dream to me!!! Maybe you should take it over to Sears or Jiffy Lube and see if they would do it cheeper. I heard the Sears and Jiffy Lube folks are very well-trained in hummers ( real hummers). How many hours were you charged and what exactly was done?

 

20 hours to do an engine is hilarious. Not a chance in hell, not even close.

The reality is most shops won't know how to estimate this for you ahead of time because they've never done an engine in a Hummer before. It's also funny when shops don't realize their cranes won't be long enough to actually pull the engine out and they call for advice (we get this call a few times a year). When doing a long block swap you don't charge extra time for swapping injectors, turbo, etc because that is all part of the base job. Sounds like this shop is just bidding it in a really weird order. What was the TOTAL to do the engine replacement?

Also, which engine are you using and do you have any additional performance parts (aftermarket turbo, intercooler, performance ECU, mechganical turbo wastegate, etc)?

Where are you located? Also if you need a new AM General engine shipped to you we can help so please call anytime.

 

Thanks for the positive input Ian. The numbers were based on what I could find searching the internet for other people's experience in doing this, which is why I'm ASKING in this thread and not stating that the numbers I found were an absolute fact. You are correct that I DON'T KNOW, that's why I'm ASKING for input from people who might have access to "book" times or who do this kind of work on a regular basis. I've swapped engines on a race car in 2 hours at the track before, but it's a whole lot more accessible and a lot less complicated than this one, so yes, I know plenty about working on cars, but no, I don't know squat about working on diesels.


As far as my "pipe dream", I don't have time to do an in-depth search right now (I originally found 3-4 different examples), but here's a quick search on Google.
This one is talking 16-20 hours for a 6.5TD to 6.5TD swap.
More than one person said 16-20 hours and another guy says he paid $2k (I'm assuming roughly 20 hours, but he does say he wasn't pleased with their work.)
One person does chime in that warranty hours show 24 for a complete swap and 30 using a long block.
Hummer X Forum ? View topic - Engine swap; how many hrs?


Here's one that says labor runs $2k-$3k, but doesn't give hours or details.
https://www.hummerforums.com/forum/h...ment-h1-21143/


Not to mention, when I talked to the shop manager when I dropped it off, he told me he was waiting on his guy with the most experience to finish another job so that he'd be free to do mine straight through without interruption and that he would pull it in the shop and have it completed in 2-2.5 days, which falls right into 16-20 hours.


I also asked the shop I bought the engine from (well after all of this, so it wasn't a case of them feeding me bs to make a sale) and they said 25 hours for their long block install/swap. I think that 25 hours included checking/timing the injectors as well, which was a separate 2.5 hours on my invoice.


The long block was an Optimizer long block with valve covers, oil pan, oil pickup tube, timing chain and cover, and harmonic balancer already installed, along with a new block heater kit, glow plugs and glow plug harness(s), so none of those parts had to be removed and re-installed on the new engine.


I was billed for 34 hours (plus testing/timing the injectors) to remove the old engine, swap the needed parts to the new long block and reinstall the engine.
From what I had found previously and the 2-2.5 days the shop initially told me, the 34 hours took me a little by surprise and would have at least appreciated a phone call instead of just getting the bill.


The heater core was a separate thing, but I didn't realize it at the time. All I knew was the heater worked and I wasn't leaking coolant under the car before I dropped it off for the engine swap.
Again, from what I found in multiple examples of people paying to have their heater cores changed out, the consensus seemed to be $1k for parts and labor, with labor being roughly 6-7 hours. I have no idea how accurate this is or what the "book" time for the job is.


My biggest issue on the heater core thing is that I thought I was dropping it off for them to fix a leak related to the engine swap. I never heard any different until I called to see when it might be ready and they said the heater core was damaged and they were working on it. I'll be honest on this, I don't know what could have damaged the heater core form the engine letting go, but I also don't know what they could have done to damage it during swapping the engine, so this may just be a fluke that it died at the same time. What killed me on this one was that the truck was there for 7 weeks for them to do a 1 day job on it. I understand being busy and new jobs going to the back of the line, but when I dropped it off thinking it was something related to a job they just did that needed to be addressed, I would think they would have gotten on it right then. It was 3-4 weeks before they even looked at it and then another 3-4 weeks to fix it, which means they were obviously working on it whenever they had free time because I wasn't breathing down their throats to get it back to me. I wasn't expecting 11 hours (I think was 11) of labor on a 6-7 hour job (from what I found elsewhere) when I was patiently letting them load their other jobs ahead of me.
Not to mention, when I picked it up, they said everything was good to go, the leak was fixed and the heater was working, yet on the way home, I realized the heater still doesn't work. Plus, my radio no longer powers on with the truck (you have to manually turn it on and off), my turbo timer has no power going to it, and my passenger floor mat is missing, but at least they still have the floor mat at the shop.
I'll pick up the floor mat, but I don't know that I want them to touch the truck again since I seem to get it back with more issues than I drop it off with.

 

BigDog, thanks for the response.
Everything is factory with no aftermarket performance parts.
It's a shop whose main business is on big rigs, so I figured this thing was a piece of cake in comparison. It was also implied that they had done H1 work at least a few times, but never specifically stated until after the work was done when they said they took longer because they'd never worked on one before.

 

I have to agree with BigDog here. Having changed these engines myself in the past and knowing whats involved 34 hours is a deal. Remember though, you get what you pay for. How much more will it cost down the road to fix everything not done right. As you stated right away some things are not working correct already, when you go with the lowest bidder you get the lowest quality of work. That's why the good guys that know the trucks cost a little more. End of the day its a big investment and should never be short cutted. I see this scenario all too often in the trade. Shops will undercut my quote to get them in their door, once vehicle is torn apart they call with all the extras that are required. Most often the end price is higher than mine was to start with. Sounded like a better deal at the time though.

 

Thanks HUMTECH.

It wasn't a low bid type of thing on this one. I didn't even get any other shops to look at it since this is reputable diesel shop with a good reputation that I was under the impression had done major work on Hummers before.

I actually debated doing it myself, but figured I'd have quite a bit of downtime as I found time to work on it in my shop. I decided to go ahead and pay a professional to do it so that it would be done quicker and done right.
Little did I know that I could have had it done by now and not been dealing with these issues. I would have had to pay someone to come time the injectors, as I have no idea how to do that. I could have handled the actual removal, changeover of other parts, and reinstallation on my own. I'm not saying I wouldn't have hit stumbling blocks and delays, but considering the engine was initially delivered in late Dec (I think that's right) I'd have it done by now. Granted, the truck is running great. It's other little things driving me nuts.