|
Premium Gasoline?
Hello,
I know that the H3 requires only 89 octane, but can I use premiumgasolinesuch as 93 octane? Will this cause negative effects to the motor? My reasoning for premium is because it burns cleaner, more power, and better gas milage.I have always used premium gasoline on all my vehicles. There isn't much money difference between the grades. A co-worker states that damage will be caused because the motor is not made to handle high octane. I do question the credibility to this statement. This is my 1st domestic so please be kind to this question. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
OK. I have a Alpha and only run 87! The Alpha only needs 87 why would you want to spend the extra $ and not get a thing from it! Put your $ in the Bank!
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I have an Alpha too, and have only run 87 octane in it so far, but I used to only use premium gas, years ago, before the gas price crunch, and I have to say that no matter what vehicle I put premium in, it always ran better and got better gas mileage. I would have to say that you will see a difference in what fuel you put in, if it is better quality. It's up to you if you want to spend the extra money. What I usually do nowadays is I try to only put in high grade 87 octane gas, like Shell or B.P. Those two brands, especially Shell, seem to make my vehicles run a little better and get better gas mileage. Speedway, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be as good of quality.
My observations on the gas mileage come from a Jeep Cherokee and a Grand Cherokee with 4.7 high-output V-8, that both had trip computers that gave mileage to the tenth of a gallon. Bottom line, in my observations (though no completely scientific) are thatusing a more expensive, better quality brand of gas, or a more expensive grade of gas will both give you better performance. You will not be wasting your money. It's just a matter of what you are willing to spend. I have also been told by knowledgeable sources that it is not good to switch back and forth between grades. Pick either 87, 89, or premium, and stick with that choice for the time you have the vehicle, as switching can cause problems. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Premium doesn’t burn any "cleaner" than any other grade. If you are referring to detergents that prevent engine deposits, the levels are mandated by the EPA and all automotive fuels require the same amount.
You won't get any more power from the higher octane. Many people believe that you do get more power from the increased octanebecause high performance cars need high octane fuel. In reality, the high performance engine will make more power due to the higher compression of the engine. It is because of the higher compression that the engine makes more power. The high octane fuel is required to prevent detonation (pinging). More gas mileage? Not sure how. You aren’t getting more HP from the high octane fuel, so it takes just as much fuel to make the vehicle go. There is nothing wrong with switching the octane level of your fuel. Running an engine in a hot dry environment at a low altitude will require higher octane fuel then a cooler, more humid location at a higher elevation. This is why when you start getting in to higher elevations the low octane fuel is typically 85 where most other places it is 87. Go by what the manufacturer suggests for octane. If you notice pinging, increase the octane level you are using, unless it is a newer vehicle under warrantee, in which case you should make the manufacture fix it. If you still feel like spending the extra $, the oil guys have enough, you can just send your extra to me. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
steve#1 hiit it on the head,the only real point of high octane is to prevent pinging,although i use octane booster in my demolition derby cars,but it makes really cool blue flames come out of the stacks,just a cool factor is all
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
The manual says 87 Octane (regular unleaded). That's all I used for 5 years in my H2 and it's all I use in my new H3. No pinging.
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Steve is dead on.
The H3 manual and recomendation is 87 regular fuel, you will not see anything from an engine/car that was produced for 87 fuel. Now if you had a Ferrari, then it's a whole nother story, but just as steve mentioned, thats because of the very high compression that the engine runs. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
To be honest, I will NEVER buy the low-end gasoline ever again. I had a '96 Chevy S-10 with the 4.3L Vortec and all I ever ran in it was Chevron low end. About every three to four months, I would have two bad fuel injectors just out of the blue. Couple more months, couple more injectors. I finally did some research and found out it had to do the the refinery. The put an additive in the crude oil to allow it to flow easier in the pipes. This substance has similar characteristics to sugar; when it is hot it flows nice but when it cools off, it will crystallize. Apparently, the mystery substance is not fully processed out of the lower level fuel. When I switched to mid-grade, all my problems disappeared.
When I go off-roading at higher altitudes (>10,000 ft), I will top-off with the high end fuel. I never had it ping, but I think I get a little more umph when climbing in the thin air. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Thanks for your imput!
It looks like I will stick to atleast 89. As for my warrant, it is just what I'm use to. I came fromvehilces that required 93 octane. Anything less, it would not perform well. I'd figure that putting in 93 would yield better results to the "inferior" 87. My reasoning is not scientific either. Is there any oil/gas gurus here? |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
ORIGINAL: TacticalH3 Thanks for your imput! It looks like I will stick to atleast 89. As for my warrant, it is just what I'm use to. I came fromvehilces that required 93 octane. Anything less, it would not perform well. I'd figure that putting in 93 would yield better results to the "inferior" 87. My reasoning is not scientific either. Is there any oil/gas gurus here? |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
FWIW- Iusually go for the premium.
Here's my logic- When you look at the $diff between mid and premium grades to fill up a gargantuan tank, it's a fairly minimal diff. What's a few bucks more? A higher octane level is not going to damage an engine, so what the heck. Whether it has any real benefits is debatable, but my feeling is that (especially in the long term) everything you can do to treat your engine well will come back to thank you. Better gas, better oil, better filters, etc. And I steer clear of the "Handy Mart" stations as well. Their gas is cheaper for a reason, and while I may not know exactly what that reason is, I'm just as happy going somewhere else and spending a few extra bucks. There is a site that I used to have a link to that listed the best quality gas companies, but I can't locate it. A quick Google search would prob bring up several sites with the same info.I usually just stick to the BP/Amoco premium or the Shell V-Power. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
It's about $6 difference every time you fill up. With the MPG average for the H# that amounts to a lot.. Of course it your call what you use but your logic is flawed as you get no gains but your wallet will be lighter.:)
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I'm no oil/gas guru man, but I agree with everybody :eek: ....................Uh.............sorta...? With a PCM or ECM controled engine, like in a 3, your computer can determine that your fuel octane will allow for more rapid timing advance curves, and adjust fuel ratio accordingly, but only to a preprogrammed parameter. I am not insinuating that your engine will be ready for drag racing as soon as you pull out of the gas station with a fresh tank of 93, after you fed your machine a steady diet of 87.
What I mean is, if you consistently use one grade of fuel your PCM will learn to use THAT fuel in the most efficient manner it can. If you switch to a higher grade, I do not believe that your PCM can learn the difference until at least the end of that full tank, probably another tank, to again useTHAT fuel octane most efficiently. On everything I have ever used different fuels in: Boats, snowmobiles, motorcyles, and cars, I can consistently get better fuel economy with a higher octane fuel (pump gas range of 87 to 94). In an offshore with triple GM 502s, I can tell you this difference is huge. In an H3, fuel economy is better, but the real question is: does the increase in fuel mileage outweigh the additional cost of the higher octane fuel??? I think it would be close, but probably not, at least not consistently. I also do not think 93 octane is going to produce more HP than 89, might not even really beat 87. The increase in power is probably nominal: let's guess and say 1-3HP, at the end of a tank or two. You can free up more ponies with synthetic over petroleum???? I will say that everytime I go wheelin or for a road trip I fill up with premium, otherwise, it's 87 my 3. Premium does keep my exhaust tips cleaner???? :D Why, IDK. :D |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I don't believe for a second that higher octane does not affect the cars performance. Sure, that's what the TV reporters says (that you are supposedly wasting money on premium gas, that low or mid-grade is just fine for all non-high performance vehicles). Just from previous experience, I've had a very nice Audi S4, which was very well maintained and taken care of, and had about 10K miles on it by then, thus in top performance shape. As I drove from California to Midwest, the octane up until about Missouri is actually 91 (92 if you can get Sunoco). Only in Missouri or so, the premium octane switches to 93 octane (94 at Sunoco), like it is on the East Coast. Well, the additional 2 octane did make a very noticeable difference -- the car was definitely reacting, accelerating better - that's despite the fact that it already had a very good acceleration, and that despite the twin-turbo's, it always had a small but predictable lag. Also, the ECU did not yet had time to adjust itself to higher octane and potentially slightly different driving style. Yet, the fact remains, just a simple switch from 91 to 93 octane made a very noticeable and immediate difference to a driver, who was very sceptical about all this and at the time believed those reports that octane doesn't matter. By the way, the car's manual said to put at least 91 octane in US, or 95 if in Canada (or Europe for that matter, where most such premium cars use 95 octane, whilst sports cars use 98 octane, which is also widely available to all gas filling stations).
An acquaitance of mine, who is a big car buff (has one rebuilt muscle car with about 700 HP) and a co-owner of a premium car/limo rental service, always told me that he periodically mixes higher octane into all his cars even if they say 87, just to "clean the pipes". So the bottom line is, octane does matter, at least in my experience. And like someone else said, Shell gas is indeed very good. I've been using it in 90% of the cases for the past 8 years, and it does seem to me that their marketing campaign is truthful, and their gas if not superior, then at the very least very good and trouble-free. But then all depends on the gas station owners - if you are somewhere in NYC area, you might get some naphtalin added into the mix, as those guys don't give a damn about what EPA or municipal authorities mandate. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
ORIGINAL: audil I don't believe for a second that higher octane does not affect the cars performance. Sure, that's what the TV reporters says (that you are supposedly wasting money on premium gas, that low or mid-grade is just fine for all non-high performance vehicles). Just from previous experience, I've had a very nice Audi S4, which was very well maintained and taken care of, and had about 10K miles on it by then, thus in top performance shape. As I drove from California to Midwest, the octane up until about Missouri is actually 91 (92 if you can get Sunoco). Only in Missouri or so, the premium octane switches to 93 octane (94 at Sunoco), like it is on the East Coast. Well, the additional 2 octane did make a very noticeable difference -- the car was definitely reacting, accelerating better - that's despite the fact that it already had a very good acceleration, and that despite the twin-turbo's, it always had a small but predictable lag. Also, the ECU did not yet had time to adjust itself to higher octane and potentially slightly different driving style. Yet, the fact remains, just a simple switch from 91 to 93 octane made a very noticeable and immediate difference to a driver, who was very sceptical about all this and at the time believed those reports that octane doesn't matter. By the way, the car's manual said to put at least 91 octane in US, or 95 if in Canada (or Europe for that matter, where most such premium cars use 95 octane, whilst sports cars use 98 octane, which is also widely available to all gas filling stations). An acquaitance of mine, who is a big car buff (has one rebuilt muscle car with about 700 HP) and a co-owner of a premium car/limo rental service, always told me that he periodically mixes higher octane into all his cars even if they say 87, just to "clean the pipes". So the bottom line is, octane does matter, at least in my experience. And like someone else said, Shell gas is indeed very good. I've been using it in 90% of the cases for the past 8 years, and it does seem to me that their marketing campaign is truthful, and their gas if not superior, then at the very least very good and trouble-free. But then all depends on the gas station owners - if you are somewhere in NYC area, you might get some naphtalin added into the mix, as those guys don't give a damn about what EPA or municipal authorities mandate. To compare a race car to a suv's octane intake is quite irrelevant as a race car runs at a much higher compression than your run of the mill SUV. I think this is the greatest misconception, as people see guys in high performance or exotic cars use 93... so it's automatically assumed that it's a better gas. Well, high performance and exotics have very high compression, in fact, some cars wont even run on anything less than 93. As for gas stations, I can't really agree on a brand being better than all the other brands, however, I do believe that it's heavily dependant upon the station age and the owners. New stations will have a lot of crap still in their tanks, so you get objects you dont want in your fuel. Old gas stations have a deposit of debris in the bottom of their tanks, so when a truck dumps a new load... it can stir them up causing problems for motorists. Some BP or Shell stations may be dumped on old tanks or old pumps, everything has it's variables. I would say it's really dependant on the station itself (obviously if it's a clean station, pumps are in great shape and maintained, it would be safe to assume that they would take a little more care with their gas and maintain their |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Your S4, didn't it require 89 or above? |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Learn more here on Premium vs Low octane fuels:
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/...s_premium.html |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Audil: I'm not knocking (ooh that could be a pun :)) your observations, but they are based upon a twin turbo go cart controlled by a differentECM than an H3. I have run 93 in my 3 and my butt dyno can't tell the difference. :D I've used octane boost fuel treatment in past rides, much lighter and performance oriented, and I could feel some power band difference. So by no means are you wrong, just comparing apples to avacados.
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
No offense Vader, but you're getting raped where you buy gas.
The avg diff between grades here in VBis .10/gal. (and has been since '96, when I movedhere) I'm putting in 20 gal a fill-up avg (of course it's a few more if you wait until bone-dry status), which only amounts to a $2 diff between grades. So, that would be a $4 diff per fill-up between reg and premium. I, personally, have never put reg in any of my vehicles, so it's only a matter of $2 diff per fill-up for me. I fill it a couple/few times a month. So, let's say that's a $6 diff per month, $72annually. An extra $72/year for better gas is nothing. Even if it doesn't make any substantial difference, at least I know it's not crap I'm putting in the tank. It's hardly a flawed system if it works for me.:) To each their own. It's really just a matter of what one is comfortable with. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
ORIGINAL: greenshirt77 No offense Vader, but you're getting raped where you buy gas. The avg diff between grades here in VBis .10/gal. (and has been since '96, when I movedhere) I'm putting in 20 gal a fill-up avg (of course it's a few more if you wait until bone-dry status), which only amounts to a $2 diff between grades. So, that would be a $4 diff per fill-up between reg and premium. I, personally, have never put reg in any of my vehicles, so it's only a matter of $2 diff per fill-up for me. I fill it a couple/few times a month. So, let's say that's a $6 diff per month, $72annually. An extra $72/year for better gas is nothing. Even if it doesn't make any substantial difference, at least I know it's not crap I'm putting in the tank. It's hardly a flawed system if it works for me.:) To each their own. It's really just a matter of what one is comfortable with. I belong to several auto Forums and this subject has always been arguementitive and with strong convictions. I've learned after a couple of attempts it's best to let it go and move on. Cheers.[sm=icon_cheers.gif] |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
of course every car is different, and I made sure to spell out all the differences and note that it's my personal experience. Likewise, neither the twin turbo, nor the ECM have anything to do with the very noticeable acceleration increase. As some have correctly observed, it takes at least after one or two full tanks or premium to notice the difference with regular, since ECM needs time. In my case, I noticed an immediate improvement. So once again, neither the turbo nor the ECM could have had anything to do with this, and I was simply too skeptical at the time myself.
All those studies are great, but as many of you noted, it all depends on a variety of conditions, ranging from the type of car and engine, to weather and elevation factor. I don't know what is best in case of the new H3 Alpha, but the dealer told be 87 octane, same as the manual. Meanwhile, some of the users here do claim that it's still better to put in premium or mid--grade. Which brings a point -- why does mid-grade (89) even exists, if all cars require either 87 or 91/93? At least I've never drove or owned cars that required 89 -- and I drove and owned many cars. :) |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Mid grade is there to convince the person psychologically that "at least it's not the last one". Satisfies a persons guilt and doesn't kill the wallet. :D I've seen gas stations with 5 diff octane types... go figure.
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
The old 97-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTPs, the Buick Riviera, and the last generation of Impalas w/ the Eaton Superchargers..........all called for 89 or higher.;)
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
[/quote]
I belong to several auto Forums and this subject has always been arguementitive and with strong convictions. I've learned after a couple of attempts it's best to let it go and move on. Cheers.[sm=icon_cheers.gif] [/quote] I hope I didn't come across as arguementitive. That wasn't my intention at all. Just wanted to put in my .02 per gallon. ha ha I know- horrible pun. |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I have to fill up my tank pretty soon onmy dime. Factory fill is about out. I'm going with 93 Shell V-Power. I have always used this fuel.
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Audil, your observations with your Audi are spot on. Vehicles with hgh compresion ratios or forced induction require, and will perorm better with higher octain.
I'm not sure how the PCM is "learning" what octain fule you are running after running a tank. The PCMwill retard the timing from thedefaultif the knock sensor detects knock. This dosn't take a tank full of fuel, but a split second. It dosn't have any way of knowing that advancing the timing would be benifitual. Why does midgrade exist? For some vehicles, like Doc Olds pointed out,its what is required. It is also an option for engines designed for low octain that have developed issues with pinging to increase octain without going all the way up to premium. That's enough "debateing" for one morning... I've got a CB to install. :):) |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
ORIGINAL: Steve #1 That's enough "debateing" for one morning... I've got a CB to install. :):) I had one in the '60s. My handle was RamRod. I loved ridin' in the "rocking chair":D |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
PCMs learn like this: Attention PCM students, class is in session, we have learning to do today! :D:D:D
Suffice it to say, when digesting octane, timing is based upon spark curves, not straight lines, that require blending with other factors. Those little buggers can detect what is happening, store it in their 32bit flash, and burst flash, memory and create a data table to draw conclusions as to how to modify the spark curve base on YOUR PRIOR DRIVING to most efficiently operate the engine systems. These things store like billions ofnumbers!! Yikes! "Block learing" is oneof the easiest examples. [sm=sleeping.gif] I am not talking about direct sensor operating,for instance,the PCM getting a knock code directly from the knock sensor. That response comes from a programmed fixed data table. It is amazing really, from this old guy's perspective where tuning a car used to be ALL mechanical? :D Reading? http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ms/page_4.html; freaky voice guy: http://para.noid.org/~lj/PCM%20Tutorial/PCMtutorial.htm, makes me noid??? Note: this is an out of date overview, our PCMs are way more advanced than pre 2005, like 4 times more data capacity and 10 times faster. ;) |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Doc,
I bet you're old enough to remember weights and springs in your distributor!! and even floats in your fuel system?:D Maybe we should call you "Old Doc"?[sm=lildevil.gif] |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
Hey there bub, with the CB in the 60s. :D I had an old 70s Toronado with the CB radio built right in????? Weights and spring were and are a treat, I got old muscle doesn't know what a comuter is. I remember when they came out with adjustable vacume advance timing..............WOW, adjustable by turning an allen screw. Man that's tech!!!!:eek:
|
RE: Premium Gasoline?
ORIGINAL: Doc Olds Hey there bub, with the CB in the 60s. :D I had an old 70s Toronado with the CB radio built right in????? Weights and spring were and are a treat, I got old muscle doesn't know what a comuter is. I remember when they came out with adjustable vacume advance timing..............WOW, adjustable by turning an allen screw. Man that's tech!!!!:eek: |
RE: Premium Gasoline?
I got no idea what I'm talkin bout, so I don't know how the rest of are gonna do it! :D Them were the days, yep.
|
T
Originally Posted by cbetts
(Post 85678)
To be honest, I will NEVER buy the low-end gasoline ever again. I had a '96 Chevy S-10 with the 4.3L Vortec and all I ever ran in it was Chevron low end. About every three to four months, I would have two bad fuel injectors just out of the blue. Couple more months, couple more injectors. I finally did some research and found out it had to do the the refinery. The put an additive in the crude oil to allow it to flow easier in the pipes. This substance has similar characteristics to sugar; when it is hot it flows nice but when it cools off, it will crystallize. Apparently, the mystery substance is not fully processed out of the lower level fuel. When I switched to mid-grade, all my problems disappeared.
When I go off-roading at higher altitudes (>10,000 ft), I will top-off with the high end fuel. I never had it ping, but I think I get a little more umph when climbing in the thin air. |
...........and a 10 year old thread at that. I seriously doubt anyone cares that you resurrected it ......:eek:
|
Great idea
Last activity was in 2013!
Hope you made a great point! |
|
Originally Posted by Born Champ
(Post 351471)
We arent asking about your Chevy. This is a hummer thread.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hum...bd7918a9f7.jpg |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:45 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands