new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

A brother and I were talking hummers today, and wondering why GM killed the H1, postulating as best we could about why they would kill the flagship of the brand & such a cultural icon at that.

The "bad rap" of the H1s mileage, size, and all? In the end it seems, the H2 is the one under the most attack, not the H1, which is sheltered somewhat from the lonney toon episodes by its military origins. The lack of sales? As i mentioned in the other thread, I can't imagine that they lose much money selling humvees at a $100,000 markup with basically no marketing efforts, etc.

And as Ferrari periodically releases a world-beater, like the GTO, F40, F50, and Enzo, as Porsche has its 959 and Carerra GTs, Corvette has its Z06s et al., etc. and so on... brands with performance/status/cool aspirations are well served by their flagships. And the H1 is, in a way perhaps, a better flagship than any of those, because its the origin of the thing rather than an occasional engineering exercise. While we certainly don't know, and aren't privvy to inside information of course, we hypothesized that perhaps a replacement flagship was in the works.


The logic behind such a thing isn't hard to imagine. The Humvee is now an ~25 year old design that was designed only for utility in its varied military roles. If such a truck was designed even somewhat from new, it could be made so incredibly much better on so many levels. Legroom could be vast for its 4 occupants, the engine/frame could be designed to isolate motor noise to a 1000x higher level, sound deadening could be taken into consideration, and you could make a truck (at that insane price point) that was both uber-lux AND humvee capable. It wouldn't take many changes to make massive improvements in alot of the areas that aren't up to modern-vehicle standards.


And perhaps deliver a vehicle that would attract buyers who wanted something expensive and rare and exotic and all... but couldn't live with the sins of the H1. Those for whom the H2 is too common, and the H1 is too crude. All they have now is the Range Rover, which while devilishly handsome, really doesn't cut the mustard as a super-vehicle. And the Range isn't a better all around truck than the H2, it's just a socially safer choice for people wanting to slip under the radar a bit more than the hummer allows, and it has a higher base price & more conventional styling, which would interest some people as well.


The counter to this basic logic would be that GM is in financial trouble, not historically prone to super-vehicle development, and perhaps not prone to thinking the long-term through (at least historically). And the cost of developing such a vehicle wouldn't be low, although it might not be all that bad.



OK, that's late night contemplation in a shade of green. :D

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

If it was up to me, I would not have killed off the H1.

Instead, I'd just build 50 to 100 numbered editions per year. Fully line the interior with the best leather, throw in all the options, and include lifetime XM and Onstar subscriptions. Do whatever it takes to make it the most exclusive truck out there.

Price it at $200k plus or whatever the desired profit point is and only let dealers with stand-alone Hummer franchises order them.

Coouln't they have just tried this for a year or until the next Gen H2?

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

i totally agree.

speaking of teh next-gen H2, does anybody have some good links to rumors about that bad-boy?

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

GM is known to make a lot of mistakes. X-ing the H1 is just another one. They should have put more effort into designing a super efficient engine.

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

GM made immense mistakes with its brand-blurring, coming to a head in the 80's. by ignoring the small-car trend when it was new, and GM was in a better position than anybody to capitalize on it, and make the best / best accepted small cars and kill honda before it even began.

while it is certainly fashionable to bash GM left and right and up and down, and perhaps some GM vehicles still have their problems... In my recent car-shopping spree, many GM vehicles have really impressed me. Among them are the Caddy SRX, DTS, and STS (though the Escalade and CTS left me fairly flat). The Escalade is an undeniable hit, its a 2-month wait at the local dealer for an '07, and their considerable stock of '06s that was on hand when the '07s left is almost sold off. Those things (escalades) are freaking everywhere in an area where the sight of a big hummer (h2 or h1) will stop traffic (they are rare here). The new Buicks are almost perfect cars for the intended audience. Hugely quiet/comfy, and smooth riding, and not nearly as flawed in other ways as older cars, and the new pontiacs look great. The H3 is an insanely successful design, it seems to me, from the viewpoint of the intended outcome. The new Vette rules, too. The DTS is a masterpiece of a highway car at its pricepoint.

And the always-lauded german cars aren't without their considerable flaws. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all sell pleather interiors, even on 5 series and A6s, as standard. Nothing like sitting on some rubber to really set the mood. Also, GM vehicles have the best climate control systems of anybody, they heat/cool you quickly/considerably, and much quieter than imports. Thats really important here, where it might be 105, and it might be -45.

And they did just release the sick-and-wrong Z06, and the new vette isn't whatsoever the rickety rough-and-tumble vettes of old. and i think the caddy STS is a far nicer blend of ride/quiet/comfort/sporty drivability than the german cars, although i accept that all mags will rag on it just for being GM and not BMW.

i'm blabbering about stuff that i'm not an expert at (but i did recently test drive more than 30 different vehicles while shopping for myself and with my brother)

And i don't mean these comments as argument, Skeet, and i agree it was a bad idea to axe the biggest hummer, but...

i guess i'm just trying to find some hope here. because an ultra-hummer of the highest sort would just be something to save ones pennies for. :)

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

mostly, i guess, i just hope that hummer releases a new super-truck, one without the irreconcilable flaws of a humvee, a world-beater. because that would ensure the durability of the brand.

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

I dont think they'll build a new supertruck, although I would love them to. I read somewhere that they're gonna stop production because of poor sales and the h2 is the new flagship. I personally think it's a bad move because of the good name of the h1. I think it would have been better for the brand to keep it with or without improving it.

What about the mercedes G. It will be in production for a few more years and is very luxurious and very capable off-road.

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

i agree. but i'm willing to waste a brain cell hoping for a new uber-hummer.

Well, the G is cool-lookin, and nice on the inside in ways, and all the rage (like the H2 a few years ago, and the hummer before that, i guess) in beverly hills. And thats kind of cool, i guess.

And it has 3 locking differentials, and that's pretty cool, too. And its signed by the people who build it by hand, and i guess thats pretty cool, too.

And i will confess that the G didn't get a fair look during my recent car-shopping, as i didn't really know it existed in commercial form at that time ( i was never a truck/offroading guy). But i did get a ride in one a few weeks back, and its not as nice as an H2, kind of rickety and rattly. And its 10 inches narrower than an H2, and spec'd at just as high, and that probably bodes for not-as-stable-when-having-fun. Its suspension also allows less wheel travel (8.0 -vs- 10.3), and clearance isn't as high either at 8.3" -vs 11" for my H2 with the air suspension engaged. And with the air suspension engaged, by my measures the low-point is the frontal skid plate on the H2, so probably i could extend that a bit if i was willing to hear some rock-on-metal. Approach and departure angles are spec'd at 36 and 27 degrees -vs- 43 and 40 for the H2 (w/air suspension pumped up). The H1 offers 70-some and 38 degree angles.

It is spec'd at alot better legroom than the H2, though, which is good (the H2 is only just ok in the legroom department), and in my brief jaunt i will say i didn't mind the extra streeeetch room one bit!

but i can't imagine this truck matching up to an H2 offroad. from my limited experience, those things like clearance and angles will really matter, and the H2 has traction galore (at least for the things i've thought of tyring to do with it) without the extra locker.

So i guess i'd offer that this thing doesn't quite fit what i had in mind. I have in mind an H2, only better at all things. quieter, more clearance, H1 stance, get a diesel in it, put some analine leather to die for in the thing & call it a rolls royce... that can scale mountains.

But i do really enjoy the G, its very cool lookin & trendy, and those are nice things that add to the pleasure of owning a vehicle. It probably is spared the negativity that sometimes gets aimed at the H2, which would be good i guess. But could it toss itself down that prarie trail at 50mph, or over that 7 foot ridge? based on the vastly worse dimensions, i don't think so.

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

It can even toss itself over that prairie. I know it's kinda sturdy on road but that only because it's a real mountain goat.

There are quite a few armies and police forces in the world that use the G, like the dutch army and police, danish, norwegian, french, canadian and german army and also the US marine corps force reconnaissance.

To prove its not all talk:


[IMG]local://upfiles/321/DD22477503B247ADB634677DD7C00F2A.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/321/3F51B928078E4213812E1EE7E5B473CD.jpg[/IMG]

RE: new "H1" or super-hummer with another name forthcoming?
 

About 2 years ago, MB announced that the G was ending production to be replaced by the GL. Late last year, MB changed it's mind and announced that the G will live on. They're even investing in updating the electrical system to bring it in line with it's other current vehicles.

The interesting thing is that the G isn't built by MB but under contract contract by Puch in Austria. In a way, it's a little like the AM General/GM arrangement.

It's also interesting to note that late model G's are compromised somewhat in off-road capability and ride comfort in the US to meet certain SUV oriented government standards. Note that roof racks are verboten and not available for US G's!

Anyway, if MB can change it's mind, why not GM? Please!