RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

OK Here goes (for the third time [:@]):

(this is not an advertisement or site-sponsor. This is my own research and information collection and does not reflect any opinions of the site members or owners)

Full Flex International (the kit I mentioned above): http://www.fullflexint.com/

Thissystem is a pass-through system. You disconnect your current fuel injector wires and plug them into the input of the Full Flex control module. The control module has plugs/cables that go out from the module and back into the fuel injectors. The module adjusts or compensates for the E85 by adjusting the fuel/air mixture. It can work with regular and E85, or a combination of both in the tank. The suggested retail for this kit (for a V8) is $499, and has been tested on the H2 and H3, as shown on their site. The contact who I've been in touch with has a H2 and H3 with the system installed and loves it. He said it's a20 minute installation process if you know your way around an engine.

Flex Fuel US (the first and only EPA-certified system): http://flexfuelus.com/

This kit is a little different. This system requires you swap out your fuel injectors with ones provided with the kit. Basically, you remove your fuel injector wires, remove the injectors themselves, replace the injectors with the ones attached to the control module, and then plug the factory injector cables back into the new injectors themselves. I believe (not sure) this works the same as the Full Flex kit, but instead of controlling the exising injectors, you have injectors that have the connections built-in rather then having a passthrough system with extra connections. I think this system also replaces either your CO2 or O2 sensor though, as this quote from their site would suggest:
"Flex Box continuously monitors your vehicle’s engine emissions and adjusts supplemental fuel injection which allows your vehicle to operate at optimal performance. "There is also a picture on the main page of a CO2 sensor attached to the control module, so this system may work a little differently, but they have very limited technical data on it, and I have not heard back from this company yet, even though they are based 25 minutes away from where I work.

Also, according to FlexFuel's site, an EPA-certified kit means that your factory warranty is not affected by law. Also, certain states, including IL, have programs where you can get reimbursed for the installation of the kid. In IL, it's up to 80% of the cost of the kit. I have seen the kit on a web site for $425. The odd thing is according to the site, it will be available soon, as the Full Flex one is already available and has been used for over a year in the U.S. and other countries.

Full Flex has been installing them on the H2's and H3's for a while now, here and in other countries. They have not heard of any problems at all.

Full Flex is also willing to give a discount to our group here. The regular price of the system for a V8 engine is $499. I don't know what the pricing would be for the H3 yet since it's an I-5. I'll post it when I find out. I also don't know what the discounts will be yet, but will find out.

Again, this has nothing to do with this forum or it's sponsors. I did the research myself and everything in this post is my own information.

The system was designed for the stock PCM on the H2/H3 but it will work with a tuned PCM as well apparently, so that shouldn't be an issue. This is obviously not a replacement for a good PCM upgrade. I don't know what the mileage and power, etc. data is, but I can try to find out. Apparently though, the E85 gives a nice boost of power since it's rated at

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

And Thanks Camou, Doc and Speednut for the extra info!

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

[sm=rant.gif]
I'll spare you the rant on E85.

I will clarify something for you.
Octane doesn’t equal power. Octane prevents detonation.

E85 does not burn as efficiently in typicalinternal combustion engines as gasoline and contains only 72% of the energy on a gallon-for-gallon basis compared to gasoline. This will reduce your mileage on average 25%, but my guess is that on the H3, that reduction in power will result in a greater reduction in mileage than the average 25%.

Why you would want to do this conversion is beyond my comprehension, and there are opinions and BS on both sides, but, what I stated above is an undeniable fact (with the exception of the part I said was a guess).

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

Well, that's why I started these threads. I'm trying to find out as much as possible, so information such as yours is valuable to me, and I'm sure more people out there, members and guests alike to this forum, are also interested.

I want to do it because even though I'm not exactly a "tree hugger", the older I get and the closer Iget to having children, the more I think about their future and how I'm not doing them any favors by driving a vehicle that puts out 11.2 tons of CO2 a year. Also, E85 is available all over in my area, so finding it isn't a problem.

There are a couple of things I'd like to find out though which I probably won't be able to get hard data on specifically for the H3, that is, exactly how much less mileage you get specific to the H3, and what percentage less polution it puts out. Obviously if the H3 sticks to your percentages and will get an average of 25% less gas mileage on E85, it will actually cost you more in fuel to drive the H3 then it would sticking to standard gas. Maybe the money is better spent on Mods to increase your mileage and power.

Here in IL, you can get reimbursed for almost the entire cost of the E85 modification, so it may not cost me hardly anything when it's all said and done.

Another reason is I'd like to have a unique vehicle and say I have one of the only E85 Hummers on the road. It may sound kind of gimmicky but at the same time it's also nice to know I'm not as big of a pollutant as other cars out there.

My question to you would be, do you know how much less pollution from a percentage using a full tank of E85 would cut compared to a full tank of good old 87 Octane? I haven't read alot of the data yet because I've been reasearching this stuff. The percentage may be so small that it's not really helping anything or anybody. That is something I'd like to know and hope I can find out by the weekend by doing more research.

I do appreciate the feedback though. I don't take things personal. That's why I asked for info.

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

HG, maybe some of the info in this response will answer the polution question. I really think the reality is that no one really knows and it will still be years before we find an alternative to our appetite for oil, i.e. gasoline and all other by products. I do applaude your concern for both the environment and trying to do what you can do to make this a better place for us all. I am reminded of a few years back when I was developing small hydroelectric power plants and although it was "green power" electricity generated without burning coal, oil or natural gas there were many environmentalists who were boistrous about the effects on fish and water temperature. But the following are just some more facts andexcerpts to make you decision and life more complicated....

Ethanol is a particulate-free burning fuel that combusts cleanly with oxygen to form carbon dioxide and water.

Gasoline produces 2.44 CO2 equivalent Kg/l and ethanol 1.94 (this is -21% CO2). Ethanol currently produced emits a similar net amount of CO2 but less carbon monoxide than gasolinebut there is no current production method that does not contribute to additional air pollution.

A study by atmospheric scientists at Stanford University found that E85 fuel would increase the risk of air pollution deaths relative to gasoline. Ozone levels are significantly increased , thereby increasing photochemical smog and aggravating medical problems such as asthma.

A January 2006 Science article from UC Berkeley's ERG, estimated reduction from corn ethanol in greenhouse gases (GHG) to be 7.4% after reviewing a large number of studies. However, in a correction to that article releases shortly after publication, they reduce the estimated value to 7.4%. A National Geographic Magazine overview article (2007) puts the figures on 22% less GHG emissions in production and use for corn ethanol compared to gasoline and 56% reduction for cane ethanol. Carmaker Ford reports a 70% reduction in CO2 emissions with bioethanol compared to petrol.

Large-scale 'energy farming', necessary to produce agricultural alcohol, requires substantial amounts of cultivated land. Some claime that land is acquired through deforestation, while others have observed that areas currently supporting forests are usually not suitable for growing any sort of crops.

As demand for ethanol fuel increases, food crops are replaced by fuel crops, driving food supply down and food prices up. Growing demand for ethanol in the United States has in the United States rose 17% from January to June 2007 to the highest in 11 years. Prices for all grain crops trend upward, reflecting a progressive increase in farm land devoted to corn for the production of produce ethanol fuel. Prices for U.S. corn-based products, including animal feed, also rise. This translates to higher prices for animal products like chicken, beef, and cheese. June 2007 cheese prices rose to $2 per pound on average, increasing 65% over the same period in 2006. As milk prices in the United States, approached $4.00 per US gallon, many American restaurant franchises announced price increases for their products to compensate for rising food costs.

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

It's kinda like that theory they teach you in school that says what comes in must go out, or, any kind of energy you produce has some kind of other effect down the line. That's some very interesting stuff. So in esense or theory you could be actually making our Ozone layer deplete more by using Ethanol then using normal Gasoline?

The economics I understand completely. I actually wrote a post about this earlier in the year, about how farmers around my area have been taking their farms off the market and more E85 pumps are popping up.

From reading all of this info and hearing everybody's comments, it's starting to seem like we really aren't going to know what is best right now as you say. There seems to be alot of mixed opinions and information coming out, but I care more about statistics and facts then I do about what people's personal opinions are.

When you post information as you did, comparing the economic factors to the environmental ones, it kinda puts things in persepctive for me a bit, which is kinda making it look more pointless to me at this time.

Thanks for that information! I can't wait to see what more people have to say about it.

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

Camou2 covered it pretty well.

E85 has been made to look good on paper. It's making corn farmers happy, it's making the business men that made investments in refining happy, it makes the politicians happy, it makes some of the greenies happy, and it makes the soccermoms driving there Tahoes happy because they think they are saving the planet.

I could go on and on.... but I won't, there's tons of information out there for both sides of the argument. Take note of the source of the information before you put any stock in it.

BTW: As much as I'm against E85, it's trickall down effect is good formy family's soy bean farm. ;)

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

Well like I said, I really appreciate you guys getting into the topic and providing your feedback. If anything good comes out of it, it will be that a few of us are more educated about it. I'm sure we aren't the only ones reading this thread, so people will at least get a broader perspective of the big picture.

I guess it is a never-ending topic. It seems there are more negative impacts then positive one.

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

You know I was watching this show the other day about alternative fuel. They were talking about another interesting aspest of E85 production, being the various crops from which the ETOH can be grown from. Corn was about the least efficient because they said for every oneunit of fossil fuel (gas/deisel etc.) to plant, cultivate, harvest, haul and produce theETOH from corn, they only get 1.4units of ETOH back out. They predict that when they figure out to use switchgrass to produce ETOH it will yield 4units of ETOH perunit of fossil fuel??? The switchgrass stuff isn't even figured out yet so it is just based on predtictions from aggricultural eggheads. They also talked about units of ETOH per acre, corn was very weak. It was allnews to meand clearly shows there is no simple answer yet.

RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
 

I still think the answer was already shown to us in Back to the Future 2. Mr. Fusion is the way to go:D