Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done?
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Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 11:08:44 AM
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HummerGuy
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This is more of a question for the PCM for Less folks, unless anybody else knows the answer.
A) In theory, if you replace the gas tank, fuel lines, pump, etc. that make up the fuel system, with the updated ones from the newer generation of H3, could the old PCM be programmed for E85 use?
B) If the old PCMs can be reprogrammed for E85 use, what percentage faster would your engine components deteriorate from using E85 instead of just regular Gasoline without upgraded the rest of the fuel system? Are we talking months, years, etc.?
I would just like to know. What is so special about components in the E85-compatible cars that is different from normal ones? My in-laws have a Dodge Caravan that I believei s a 2000/2001 and it runs E85. That was before this big craze hit.
I just wonder sometimes if that's all just a bunch of BS marketting or if there is scientific proof that running E85 through your normal fuel system will actually make things break down and deteriorate at some rediculously fast rate.
What do you guys think?
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 11:41:17 AM
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Doc Olds
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From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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Yep, about $425.00, this is the only current legal conversion kit taht I am aware of. There will no doubt be more. http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=113 and your current pcm can learn the burn! http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=InstallationInstructions The pcmforless people may be able to shed more light on this, and a modification in programming may help further.
One last thing, my inlaws had an 02 Chrysler minivan that was "flex fuel compliant", but this did not mean you could use it. You needed a dealer installed conversion upgrade from chrysler which my father in law did not have installed. IDK what the price was.
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 11:48:05 AM
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HummerGuy
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Oh boy, and I told them they could start using E85!!!
Oops
I'm going to check that kit out. Seeing as you are the all-knowing GM techy person on the forum (and I don't say that sarcastically), do you think this is worth the money, AND, do you think it's safe to do?
I am willing to buy the kit ina month or two when I have the funds, but only if people jump in and tell me yay or nay as far as "Would you do it to yours" is answered.
What do you think? Keep in mind, I was the 2nd person on the forum to get the PCM upgrade, so I'm usually willing to be the Guinnea (spelling?) pig for it.
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 12:13:59 PM
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Doc Olds
Posts: 3398
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From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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They may be ok, it depends if they have the optional "kit", and I do not know squat really about Chryslers??? My wife has had her 05 Pacifica for 13 months, and it runs like a top, actually the first mopar I've ever had, ever (bought it at an auction with less than 11K on the ticker dirt cheap/full warranty). Maybe you can find some on line info??? Do they have the window sticker, or is there a equipment tag on the glove box door???
That kit I linked is basically a go around for the fuel injectors to adjust the air fuel ratio. Hypothetically,  if they ever tried one of these kits at the GM tech center, it would, hypothetically, work on a Pontiac V6 and Chevy V6 and V8 trucks. I never, hypothetically, saw it applied to a I5 yet, but why wouldn't work. Just make sure you know what your injector connecter looks like before you order. G pig. 
Let's see if Kelly or Alvin have any thoughts.
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 12:20:00 PM
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HummerGuy
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Are you just, hypothetcially, protecting your job so they don't see you posting, hypothetically proven information that could cause you to get a hypothetical pink slip?
My friend John actually showed me the link to the manufacturer's site (what's up buddy) and when I found out how easy it was, I said hey, let me post about this.
After doing more research, guess what? I found out they are based in Chicago, actually about 25 minutes from where I work. I'm going to give them a call either this afternoon or tomorrow and talk to them about possibly converting the H3. You never know. We might be able to work out some sort of deal.
You know what kind of publicity they could get if they successfully converted a I-5 H3 to E85? That's pretty big news, especially if it actually works
Now, what about the degredation of the components, i.e. fuel lines, pump, etc. Will E85 cause damage to those components if I leave them stock?
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 12:35:07 PM
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Doc Olds
Posts: 3398
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From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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Hypothetically, you never know????? I'm not sure the general wants everyone to know this ain't rocket science!!!!
You do not have a high mileage vehicle, worst you're gonna get is a check engine light and rough idle. Your components are gonna be fine, ecspecially if you run gasoline every now and then to lubricate the system. Dry gas now and then may not hurt either in high humidity. Got corn????
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 1:39:48 PM
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HummerGuy
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So, why all this talk in the industry then about E85 causing advanced deterioration of your components and so forth? Is that just all complete B.S. to get you to buy officially designed E85 cars?
You don't have to answer that, but you ARE saying that I can use E85 in my current H3 with no more wear and tear on lines and components then regular gasoline?
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/16/2007 6:45:32 PM
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Doc Olds
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From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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Remember this, it is not the E85 that corrodes your fuel system, it is the water/moisture that can get into the alcohol. I do not know what the status of state and federal regulation of E85, but if they monitor that like gasoline, most reputable suppliers and retailers will do a good job of keeping water to a prescribed minimum and the 15% gasoline will act as sufficient to keep your system operating acceptably.
I do not know of any reason most post 2001 GM vehicles cannot operate on good quality E85 with a proper conversion to the fuel injection/delivery system. The rubbers and plastics used today in contact with fuel should not be a problem. The earlier in a vehicle's life the conversion is made, the more likely the transition can be a smooth one. With the very limited availability of E85, most people will have to run gas occaisionaly, if not more, for some time yet, this also helps lubrication and reducing moisture in the system.
I also think the manufactures will tack on more than the cost of a conversion kit to capitalize on tree hugger type purchasers (what they do not know, can't hurt em mentality) for quite some time yet. We shall see. When E85 is widespread and conversion kits pop up from many mfgers, that will be the test.
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/17/2007 3:11:04 AM
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hilljob26
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we dont have any stations around here that sell it so i wont be getting it,not yet anyway
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/17/2007 6:30:06 AM
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HummerGuy
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I have a station 2 miles away that has it at every pump. Most stations around my area have it, so that's why it interests me. Right now, it's only about $2.30 or so, and regular is around $2.90. I don't know yet. I'm going to keep nagging Doc about it ;-) I don't even know if I can easily get to the injectors. I never even looked for them on the I-5, but I believe they are on the passenger side of the engine.
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/19/2007 4:43:30 AM
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HummerGuy
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I checked out the Fuel Injectors. It would be a complete PITA to get to them. It looks like you have to remove the entire intake system, including whatever the big black plastic container is on the driver's side of the engine, the part that comes after the throttle body. I'm not even sure how that comes off, or if it would be very easy. I really would like to try this out, but I don't want to break something in the process of installing the new injectors.
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/19/2007 9:36:23 AM
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HummerGuy
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Here is the response I got from Kelly at PCMforLess (quoted with her permission):
As far as the E85, we have not tuned any H3's for it, not too sure about the adjustments that should be made. I'm not sure that it would be worth it, either. Looks like the conversion kit is a decent chunk of change, plus labor to install it, and potential changes to the PCM...it would take a while to pay off. And while E85 may be cheaper, it is harder to find (especially mid road trip!) and the gas mileage will most likely suffer, so you end up paying the same amount in the end. If it were my truck, I would just stick with gasoline. I know that modifications are fun and exciting, but new isn't always better ;) So, not sure yet. DOH!
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RE: Converting older H3's to E85 - Can it be done? - 10/19/2007 10:17:37 AM
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Doc Olds
Posts: 3398
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From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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Genuine Corn fed Hummer! If you did convert, you would help save the polar bears and reduce global warmin. Then you could go on a leaf licking Hummer press tour.
By the time you got done with the conversion, and working out any bugs that may pop up, Kelly has a good point. It certainly could be done though. If you did it yourself the $425.00 wouldn't be bad, to pay to have it done does turn it into the "slippery slope" situation. You would definitely have to burn more E85 to do the same miles so the price differential is smaller than the pump dollar display.
IMO E85 right now is more about trying to do your part , than being able to save on your personal buget. It will change at some point, probably soon too?
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