31 dead in VA tech shooting
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31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 3:17:59 PM
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Sugardaddy
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F-ing crazy world.
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 3:26:49 PM
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ebrown
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awfull
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 3:32:58 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
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Umm ... with the risk of getting gunned down myself here but ... with the liberal gun laws we have in this country, I really don't find this particularly surprising .. it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when ... All it takes is one nut case with a gun collection ... one day something short circuits and voila ... I'm curious to see what they will blame this time .. heavy metal music or shoot em up video games ... I guess ya'll need to worry your azzes off about me to then .. I love the music and those are my fav games if I end up playing anything ...
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 3:45:06 PM
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Racerboy80
Posts: 126
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It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!! 
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 4:09:05 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!!
No offense doode but if they were not so readily available, less people would own them ... I use to live in a different country where that was the case and whaddaya know ...
You can buy a shotgun in Meijer's here for christ sakes ... that to me is absolutely INSANE! I just don't see Mr. and Mrs Doe walking through said store knocking off items from their shopping list, milk, butter, bread, SHOTGUN, orange juice, carrots .. etc etc .. And the laws themselves are definitely a part of the problem .. they are ultimately the thing paving the road for the EASE of acquiring a gun, not the CAUSE for acquiring them! And lets face it here, WHEN were those laws written!? Has the world .. I dunno, CHANGED a bit since then!?
To completely rule out the gun laws and the ease of getting some of these weapons as NOT having an impact is NO different than turning a blind side to the problem and putting on a STUNNING, and EMBARRASING act of self indunced ignorance based entirely on a how many hundred year old idea that has NEVER been modernized to fit our changing world.
And on another note .. you may sell a gun to someone today .. then 10 years down the road he just looses it ... and starts whacking people with said gun ... SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... you didn't sell it to a criminal .. but he became one .. now what, how do you propose to handle this!? This could VERY well be the case here ... some event in this guys life trigged something in his head and this model asian american guy just went ape sh!t ... I guess the point is ... you simply just don't know!
< Message edited by ZYNE -- 4/16/2007 4:23:40 PM >
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 4:27:00 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
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If you would like to take this conversation even further and speculate about the "criminals" getting a hold of guns ... well, lets ... assuming we have 10,000,000 hand guns on the market .. for the sakes of argument ... and if X percent of those guns end up on the black market, one way or another ... well, simple math here tells us .. decrease the initial number and the X factor will drop too ... not really rocket science here folks ...
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 4:30:08 PM
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Racerboy80
Posts: 126
Joined: 1/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ZYNE
quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!!
No offense doode but if they were not so readily available, less people would own them ... I use to live in a different country where that was the case and whaddaya know ...
You can buy a shotgun in Meijer's here for christ sakes ... that to me is absolutely INSANE! I just don't see Mr. and Mrs Doe walking through said store knocking off items from their shopping list, milk, butter, bread, SHOTGUN, orange juice, carrots .. etc etc .. And the laws themselves are definitely a part of the problem .. they are ultimately the thing paving the road for the EASE of acquiring a gun, not the CAUSE for acquiring them! And lets face it here, WHEN were those laws written!? Has the world .. I dunno, CHANGED a bit since then!?
To completely rule out the gun laws and the ease of getting some of these weapons as NOT having an impact is NO different than turning a blind side to the problem and putting on a STUNNING, and EMBARRASING act of self indunced ignorance based entirely on a how many hundred year old idea that has NEVER been modernized to fit our changing world.
And on another note .. you may sell a gun to someone today .. then 10 years down the road he just looses it ... and starts whacking people with said gun ... SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... you didn't sell it to a criminal .. but he became one .. now what, how do you propose to handle this!? This could VERY well be the case here ... some event in this guys life trigged something in his head and this model asian american guy just went ape sh!t ...
Once they formulate a plan and take a substantial step towards accomplishing their crime they are indeed criminals. They are planning an action outside of the law. Whether they had the guns before the they plan the crime or obtain them after they make the plan they are still going to commit a criminal act and they won't give a damn what the law says about owning guns.
If gun laws are implemented to restrict the ownership of firearms or make it harder to purchase them there will be now way to enforce these laws. There are millions of guns in circulation today...owned by law abiding citizens, like ourselves, and by not so law abiding citizens. The only people who are going to follow the laws are the law abiding citizens, not the people living outside of the law. If guns are outlawed you and I will turn in our guns and the criminals will keep theirs. This in turn will create a black market for guns and they will still be available to purchase, just not legally. It would only delay the crime from happening if the person is dead set on commiting the crime.
I believe that the only type of crime we would prevent by outlawing guns is the shooting that is done in a heat of passion. It would give the person time to calm down and possibly prevent the crime from happening in the first place, but as I stated before, if the crime is one that is being planned, the plan will include acquiring guns...
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"Sometimes There's Justice...Sometimes There's Just Us"
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:11:00 PM
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Sugardaddy
Posts: 1800
Joined: 7/10/2006
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I'm not getting involved in this argument, because I value both of your opinions very much. I am a gun owner and I have a carry permit. Gotta kkep the "johns" inline with my hoes! lol!! But seriously, I have quite a few handguns for personal protection and a Russian AK for fun. I look at it this way. We have had a few shootings here where some nut case has gone in and shot up a place. If one other person had a gun, they may have been able to stop it. Another story. I have a few patient's that are Pittsburgh cops. I recently heard a story of some guy that was robbed in a parking garage. He handed over his money and was still shot. I myself like to go to events downtown. Pittsburgh is just like other cities. There's alot of scum that may want to take advantage and I simply won't let that happen. I also would like to mention that if one other student at VA rech had a gun, it may not have ended so tragically. I think that no matter what the laws are, criminals will take advantage and the innocent have the right to protect themselves and their property. Boy I guess I did get in in this. lol!!
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:17:50 PM
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Sugardaddy
Posts: 1800
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sugardaddy
I'm not getting involved in this argument, because I value both of your opinions very much. I am a gun owner and I have a carry permit. Gotta kkep the "johns" inline with my hoes! lol!! But seriously, I have quite a few handguns for personal protection and a Russian AK for fun. I look at it this way. We have had a few shootings here where some nut case has gone in and shot up a place. If one other person had a gun, they may have been able to stop it. Another story. I have a few patient's that are Pittsburgh cops. I recently heard a story of some guy that was robbed in a parking garage. He handed over his money and was still shot. I myself like to go to events downtown. Pittsburgh is just like other cities. There's alot of scum that may want to take advantage and I simply won't let that happen. I also would like to mention that if one other student at VA Tech had a gun, it may not have ended so tragically. I think that no matter what the laws are, criminals will take advantage and the innocent have the right to protect themselves and their property. Boy I guess I did get in this. lol!!
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:18:47 PM
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Sugardaddy
Posts: 1800
Joined: 7/10/2006
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I have no idea how a quoted myself. lol!!
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:27:54 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
quote:
ORIGINAL: ZYNE
quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!!
No offense doode but if they were not so readily available, less people would own them ... I use to live in a different country where that was the case and whaddaya know ...
You can buy a shotgun in Meijer's here for christ sakes ... that to me is absolutely INSANE! I just don't see Mr. and Mrs Doe walking through said store knocking off items from their shopping list, milk, butter, bread, SHOTGUN, orange juice, carrots .. etc etc .. And the laws themselves are definitely a part of the problem .. they are ultimately the thing paving the road for the EASE of acquiring a gun, not the CAUSE for acquiring them! And lets face it here, WHEN were those laws written!? Has the world .. I dunno, CHANGED a bit since then!?
To completely rule out the gun laws and the ease of getting some of these weapons as NOT having an impact is NO different than turning a blind side to the problem and putting on a STUNNING, and EMBARRASING act of self indunced ignorance based entirely on a how many hundred year old idea that has NEVER been modernized to fit our changing world.
And on another note .. you may sell a gun to someone today .. then 10 years down the road he just looses it ... and starts whacking people with said gun ... SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... you didn't sell it to a criminal .. but he became one .. now what, how do you propose to handle this!? This could VERY well be the case here ... some event in this guys life trigged something in his head and this model asian american guy just went ape sh!t ...
Once they formulate a plan and take a substantial step towards accomplishing their crime they are indeed criminals. They are planning an action outside of the law. Whether they had the guns before the they plan the crime or obtain them after they make the plan they are still going to commit a criminal act and they won't give a damn what the law says about owning guns.
If gun laws are implemented to restrict the ownership of firearms or make it harder to purchase them there will be now way to enforce these laws. There are millions of guns in circulation today...owned by law abiding citizens, like ourselves, and by not so law abiding citizens. The only people who are going to follow the laws are the law abiding citizens, not the people living outside of the law. If guns are outlawed you and I will turn in our guns and the criminals will keep theirs. This in turn will create a black market for guns and they will still be available to purchase, just not legally. It would only delay the crime from happening if the person is dead set on commiting the crime.
I believe that the only type of crime we would prevent by outlawing guns is the shooting that is done in a heat of passion. It would give the person time to calm down and possibly prevent the crime from happening in the first place, but as I stated before, if the crime is one that is being planned, the plan will include acquiring guns...
You do have some very valid points I don't agree with LOL! In all seriousness though, you are missing one very important factor here. You may very well be a law abiding, tax paying, productive member of society today .. hell, you may even help old Mrs Johnson out with her garbage on Wednesday night for all I know .. BUT .
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:30:53 PM
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weaponsgalore
Posts: 322
Joined: 10/25/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!!
Hmmmm...intresting point. In the UK we had some nut shoot up a load of nursery kids some years back in Scotland. The goverment banned handguns out right in England. Since the Ban, gun crime in the UK has gone through the roof...dont blame the guns blame the people. Thats my theory, we had the police contact us a few months ago, the reason being someone got murdered with one of our knives. Everything was done legal from our end... But talking to the Cop I asked him y anyone would spend 100 pounds and then go carve up
Basically he replied back saying, he ( murderer) wanted to do it with a blade By the way it was made in the USA . If he could'nt get a blade, he would have got a axe from the local DIY, and so on. Being in the UK, my view is that the USA should never do what the UK did, as it made no diffrence at all, if anything crime got worse. Blame the person never the weapon!
< Message edited by weaponsgalore -- 4/16/2007 5:33:01 PM >
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:37:54 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sugardaddy
I'm not getting involved in this argument, because I value both of your opinions very much. I am a gun owner and I have a carry permit. Gotta kkep the "johns" inline with my hoes! lol!! But seriously, I have quite a few handguns for personal protection and a Russian AK for fun. I look at it this way. We have had a few shootings here where some nut case has gone in and shot up a place. If one other person had a gun, they may have been able to stop it. Another story. I have a few patient's that are Pittsburgh cops. I recently heard a story of some guy that was robbed in a parking garage. He handed over his money and was still shot. I myself like to go to events downtown. Pittsburgh is just like other cities. There's alot of scum that may want to take advantage and I simply won't let that happen. I also would like to mention that if one other student at VA rech had a gun, it may not have ended so tragically. I think that no matter what the laws are, criminals will take advantage and the innocent have the right to protect themselves and their property. Boy I guess I did get in in this. lol!!
Agreed SD, but if that student in fact DID have a gun, and shot down the guy doing the killings ... ironically he's no longer "good" either if you want to look at it from an action/consequence aspect. So the second you use that gun, no matter how flippin good you are .. you're still a murderer just like the "bad" guy you killed ... Now what???
I don't argue the unfortunate need for guns and protection but it's a huge amount of trust put in to you for having the concealed carry permit. There is simply no way upon gawds green earth you can forsee your mental state down the road. I had a friend of mine kill himself not too long ago, a couple of years back. 6 months prior to that he was the life of the party so to speak .. a couple of bad turns with a divorce lawyer and his wife taking everything, including the kids he adored. He later found out he had cancer and was terminal, this on top of Hep. Now, he turned on himself after destroying most of his house in a rampage ... this probably being one of the nicest guys I've ever met, awesome with his kids, loved skydiving (and was my mentor for about a year) and the people that came with it ... Now .. should he have been allowed to own a gun or not!? And what if he had turned on his neighbor instead (he hated that b*tch lol) of himself, gunned her azz down .. To say it like Racerboy did to where only the "criminals" are the issue here is to ignore half the issue .. it's a simpleminded approach to a problem that deserves a far more thought through approach than to generalize bad/good ... people are not either or, they are both and they are neither ... you can't deal with black or whites, you have to deal with black AND whites... gray scales are a construct of a feeble mind better left alone ... we all have good and bad in us .. people fail to see this and generalize entirely too much!
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:42:31 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: weaponsgalore
quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!!
Hmmmm...intresting point. In the UK we had some nut shoot up a load of nursery kids some years back in Scotland. The goverment banned handguns out right in England. Since the Ban, gun crime in the UK has gone through the roof...dont blame the guns blame the people. Thats my theory, we had the police contact us a few months ago, the reason being someone got murdered with one of our knives. Everything was done legal from our end... But talking to the Cop I asked him y anyone would spend 100 pounds and then go carve up
Basically he replied back saying, he ( murderer) wanted to do it with a blade By the way it was made in the USA . If he could'nt get a blade, he would have got a axe from the local DIY, and so on. Being in the UK, my view is that the USA should never do what the UK did, as it made no diffrence at all, if anything crime got worse. Blame the person never the weapon!
While I agree with you partially here, again, it's a generalized aspect. I DON'T think guns should be banned at all .. I think the controls we have in this country are outright ridiculous however. And the amount of guns produced and sold are downright atrocious! Who the hell needs 37 hand guns, and assault rifles? Unless you plan on going to war you simply don't have any reasons for owning huge quantities of them like many at least I know do. If you limit what comes out from the manufacturer you limit what can end up on the black market ... and if you limit what gets out on the black market .. maybe, JUST MAYBE, one of those kids who got killed today would still be alive cuz this sonofab!tch couldn't get a hold of a handgun .. see my point here? It's a double edged sword, for sure ...
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-03 HUMMER H2, Birch White. 35" BAJA MTZ, AVS Window Vent shades, Sirius, rear DVD, billet gas door, tail light guards, IPCW smoked cab lights, Sylvania SilverStar Ultra's, SMA Brushguard, etc.
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/16/2007 5:50:27 PM
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blackstangs281
Posts: 6834
Joined: 11/13/2005
From: Pittsburgh PA
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I agree Sam. The problem is they won't blame the shooter. Some people will find a way to blame the government or society for not finding a way to help this person before he did this. Some things are just too effed up to understand.
My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved in this horrible action.
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