RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/20/2007 8:21:48 AM
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Lane
Posts: 78
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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1938, Germany established gun control. From 1938 to 1945, 6 million Jews and 7 million non-Jews, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1970, Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th century because of gun control: 56 million.
(Just a little light reading on a friday - have a great weekend)
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/23/2007 3:08:12 AM
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skeeet
Posts: 256
Joined: 2/2/2006
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We can not keep drugs from coming into this country so if all guns were outlawed it would only create another industry, with me a one of the many customers. It would have been nice if one of the first students to be targeted was carrying with a ccw. Somebody tell me how this would not have saved many lives. There should be some training and background requirements for gun ownership. To me , this is the only working solution.
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/25/2007 1:40:39 PM
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Dennis
Posts: 7584
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This was emailed to me from our friend Lane
Second Amendment Foundation ______ SAF APPLAUDS NEW KATES-MAUSER REPORT ON FIREARMS AND CRIME
BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation today said a new report by criminologists Prof. Don Kates of the United States and Prof. Gary Mauser of Canada that shows the rate of firearms ownership is irrelevant to the homicide and violent crime rate should be required reading, especially for reporters, editorial writers and elected representatives.
Appearing in the current issue of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pages 649-694), the Kates/Mauser report entitled “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence” is a detailed look at gun ownership and how it does not relate to the incidence of murder and violence. They conclude that “nations with very stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those which allow guns.”
“The Kates/Mauser research strips bare the claims by gun control proponents that America is more dangerous than other countries because of our right to keep and bear arms,” said SAF founder Alan M. Gottlieb. “What these two seasoned researchers have revealed is that some of the most violent countries in Europe are those with the most stringent gun laws. It seems hardly a coincidence that here in America, the highest crime rates are in places with strict gun control policies, such as Chicago and Washington, D.C. However, in areas here and abroad with high rates of gun ownership violent crime rates are lower.
“The authors note an earlier study by Kates that showed a declining murder rate over the 25-year period from 1973 to 1997, while overall gun ownership increased 103 percent and handgun ownership went up 163 percent,” he continued. “Yet during that period, the murder rate dropped 27.7 percent.”
Gottlieb said the timing of this report’s release in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy is significant due to the renewal of the gun control debate following the recent events at Virginia Tech.
“Kates and Mauser make a solid factual case against all the emotion-laden rhetoric from the gun control crowd,” Gottlieb stated. “While their research will obviously not close the debate, they’ve made a strong case against the traditional anti-gun mantra. Gun ownership is not the problem, and this new report proves it.”
-END-
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/25/2007 1:44:41 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
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I don't think the ownership is either, I think the abundance is and the fact that it's SOO easy for things to fall between the cracks :-)
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/25/2007 2:05:26 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
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I think that is a D@MN good idea Den!!
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/25/2007 2:13:11 PM
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Fireman
Posts: 514
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Home of the Alamo
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April 2007, Hummer forums, - The mention of gun control and education was brought up, .. 6 newbs, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up exterminated.
LOL couldn't resist.. 
I agree too, with education. My daughter shot her first buck this past year at the age of 8. However, she probably has more education, than many people who've been carrying guns around for along while. In fact, after being the one who taught her, I'm a little ashamed to say that she's probably more diligent about gun safety than I am. Now, don't take that wrong, I'm not dangerous etc.. it's just that she's very aware for an 8 yo, and takes it very seriously when she's hanling a gun.
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/25/2007 2:20:23 PM
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Fireman
Posts: 514
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From: Home of the Alamo
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Sorry, proud pappa has to post a pic...
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"Hey Misterrr Wilsonnnnn!!!!"
'06 H3 w/ Adventure pkg. (wifes ride)
'97 Chevy Z71 w/ 4" & 33's (daily driver)
'82 Toyota SR5 4WD "stock for now" (other daily driver)
'89 Chevy K5 Blazer (trail-rig) too much to list
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/29/2007 7:24:45 PM
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Hummergirl4
Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/24/2007
From: Upstate New York
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ZYNE
quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!! 
No offense doode but if they were not so readily available, less people would own them ... I use to live in a different country where that was the case and whaddaya know ...
You can buy a shotgun in Meijer's here for christ sakes ... that to me is absolutely INSANE! I just don't see Mr. and Mrs Doe walking through said store knocking off items from their shopping list, milk, butter, bread, SHOTGUN, orange juice, carrots .. etc etc .. And the laws themselves are definitely a part of the problem .. they are ultimately the thing paving the road for the EASE of acquiring a gun, not the CAUSE for acquiring them! And lets face it here, WHEN were those laws written!? Has the world .. I dunno, CHANGED a bit since then!?
To completely rule out the gun laws and the ease of getting some of these weapons as NOT having an impact is NO different than turning a blind side to the problem and putting on a STUNNING, and EMBARRASING act of self indunced ignorance based entirely on a how many hundred year old idea that has NEVER been modernized to fit our changing world.
And on another note .. you may sell a gun to someone today .. then 10 years down the road he just looses it ... and starts whacking people with said gun ... SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... you didn't sell it to a criminal .. but he became one .. now what, how do you propose to handle this!? This could VERY well be the case here ... some event in this guys life trigged something in his head and this model asian american guy just went ape sh!t ... I guess the point is ... you simply just don't know!
Gun control is a touchy issue. True there are lots of people who go ape **** and kill so many people with guns, but then there are the people who love guns, use them respectfully and enjoy them their entire lives. So is it right to take the guns away from everyone? It's a tough call. I am an avid hunter as is my 14 year old daughter. She was interested in hunting, I immediately took her to a hunter safety course and she was taught the complete ins and outs of the responsibilities of hunting and gun owning. It was my responsibility to do that. I myself own many, many guns. I had to get a pistol permit as my injuries from the car accident prevent me from pulling up a rifle and I cannot take any recoil in my chest. It was a fairly lengthy ordeal. I had to go to a class, a get 4 people to verify that I was a mentally sound person, had good moral charatcter and so on. New York State is very strict. Yet, the illeagle ones are still out there. I know I don't want to be defenseless in my own home. And yet there is still a fine line between self defense and not. But still I sleep better with my S&W in my nightstand. Shooting sports have been around a long time. So many people love to trap shoot, and hunting is growing into a hugely popular sport as well. It's a shame that the criminals have to make it so hard for law abiding citizens. But on the other hand, you never know what's going to make someone crack... it's a really tough call..... But as the NRA says... "out of my cold, dead hands.."
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/29/2007 7:31:42 PM
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Hummergirl4
Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/24/2007
From: Upstate New York
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My daughters turkey. She got it last Sunday. 20 lbs... 81/2 inch beard 1 1/4 inch spurs... She took him with one shot...That's my girl
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/29/2007 7:37:06 PM
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Hummergirl4
Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/24/2007
From: Upstate New York
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quote:
ORIGINAL: weaponsgalore
quote:
ORIGINAL: Racerboy80
It truly has nothing to do with gun laws. I know it is cliche, but "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns." The fact is criminals are criminals and they don't give a crap about gun laws. They are already commiting a criminal act, do you really think they will have second thoughts and say, "Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't use a gun in a crime, because it is illegal to have a gun." Hell NO...they will still commit the crime because they are operating outside of societal norms...They are Criminals!!!
Hmmmm...intresting point. In the UK we had some nut shoot up a load of nursery kids some years back in Scotland. The goverment banned handguns out right in England. Since the Ban, gun crime in the UK has gone through the roof...dont blame the guns blame the people. Thats my theory, we had the police contact us a few months ago, the reason being someone got murdered with one of our knives. Everything was done legal from our end... But talking to the Cop I asked him y anyone would spend 100 pounds and then go carve up
Basically he replied back saying, he ( murderer) wanted to do it with a blade By the way it was made in the USA . If he could'nt get a blade, he would have got a axe from the local DIY, and so on. Being in the UK, my view is that the USA should never do what the UK did, as it made no diffrence at all, if anything crime got worse. Blame the person never the weapon!
This is true. To say that guns kill people is to say that a misspelled word is the pencils fault
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/30/2007 2:02:14 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
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I beg to differ here .. from an aspect of shoting someone, one can not do so without the other .. it requires someone to pull the trigger but the trigger has to be there to be pulled .. therefor this is a classic case of distributed accountability so to speak ... both are involved and required for the action .. very simple!
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/30/2007 2:31:13 PM
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Hummergirl4
Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/24/2007
From: Upstate New York
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There are so many different thoughts and theories on this. Not to say anyone is wrong or right. But I do know that if someone flips out bad enough, or is angry enough and they want to kill someone, if they can't get a gun, they will use the first thing they get their hands on. A knife, an axe, a baseball bat, poison, a pillow, a plastic bag, rope...
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/30/2007 2:37:45 PM
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ZYNE
Posts: 2453
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Cincinnati, OH
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Absolutely, no disagreement there. I'm simply stating the gun is by no mean without "blame" in a shootin' .. neither are the bullets nor the person ... they are all requirements in order perform said action. Whether it involves a 9mm, a baseball bat, poison, a pillow, a bag, or a rope doesn't matter, they are still required for that specific action and can not be written off as inconsequential to the outcome of said action.
< Message edited by ZYNE -- 4/30/2007 2:38:11 PM >
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RE: 31 dead in VA tech shooting - 4/30/2007 2:56:39 PM
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Hummergirl4
Posts: 1019
Joined: 4/24/2007
From: Upstate New York
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This is true
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