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Jeremy -> Questions (7/8/2008 7:02:24 AM)

Hello,

I just joined the forum, I don''t own a Hummer but have a couple of questions.  I am not trying to be a troll.  I have real questions and wish to be enlightened by the group, rather than just forming my opinions without hearing both arguments.  Hopefully that is something that you can get behind and have a real discussion without flaming and bashing.

Hummer is obviously the poster child for gluttonous gas consumption (whether that is true or not).  I was reading in your forums about little kids putting down Hummer drivers and members complaining about what this world is coming to.  Many members talked about them not know the "truth" about pollution.  Yet I didn''t see anyone explain what that truth is.  I''m interested to know.

Secondly, I completely understand "freedom", including the freedom of choice and speech.  I understand that many brave men and women have died to give us those freedoms.  Therefore, if I wanted to drive a Hummer I certainly could.  What I dont'' understand is doing something, just because you can.  Just because you can drive a Hummer (or any other gas guzzling vehicle), doesn''t make it the right thing to do.  This is how I feel anyway.  Just because you can be wasteful, or can afford to be wasteful, does it make it right to be wasteful?  Please help me understand your thoughts on this idea?

Thank you for letting me visit your forums.  I am interested to see the discussion this produces.  Again, I am not trying to be a troll or incite arguement.  I am simply trying to learn.

Jeremy

  
Brad_P -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 7:17:42 AM)

The thing about the kids is that they put down the h3 because they think it gets such bad mpg when it gets better than alot of other suvs out there and no one points fingers at those suv''s, its just people being ignorant to the fact that the h3 gets good milage but are under the asumption that it doesnt. Alot of people dont even know the differance between h3''s and h2''s. I drive an h2 so i can tell you the reason why i drive it. Its not to be wasteful the h2 is very comfortable for one, another reason is that the h2 can go places that no other suv or truck can. Ive been places in my h2 along with h1''s and h3''s that other suv''s or trucks couldnt dream of going. Another good point is that when it starts to rain and this may not be an issue for everyone, anytime it rains around here the streets flood badly, if driving a car some places are just out of the question when its raining. Also many people here use there hummers for good, some are in the hope program which helps across the states when the red cross needs aid and i have read stories and i myself have pulled fellow motorist out of ditches that they have backed into and ive use my h2 to pull many people that have got stuck on the beach.

HummersForAmerica -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 7:35:12 AM)

Good question''s. I think a lot of us drive HUMMER''S because we''re proud of are country and it''s place in the world. A HUMMER is a big f-u to the lefties, socialists, tree huggers, ect. that are ruining this country. Sure its a little over the top, but thats the whole point, were not quiet, wimpering people. And, there are lot''s of us who need a big truck for work, or impressing clients so theres a business reason too.

As for polution and global warming, you show me one sceintist who says this and Ill show you one who says that. Who''s egghead are you going to trust? Theres you''re truth and then theirs my truth. Bottom line is just cause I can afford a HUMMER and gas why should I have to be the target of rediculuos, ignorent hate and jelousy. My truck employed several hundred Americans to build, how many did yours?

Brad_P -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 7:44:14 AM)

Also another way to look at the wasteful thing is fast cars. Why do people buy fast cars and why are car companies allowed to make fast cars. The highist speed limit in the states is 70, does that mean that cars should only be designed to go 70 at there top speed. I mean all cars can atleast go 100 which is an illegal speed to drive at. What it mostly boils down to is people like to bitch about things and no one will ever be happy. Good points america.

HummerGuy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 8:31:04 AM)

We (my wife and I) bought our H3 for two main reasons; A) Where we live, the streets are rarely plowed and cars slide all over the place in the winters, not to mention the flooding B) We wanted to try out the off-roading culture and use it to take road trips because of that.  We traded our Scion xB for the vehicle.

The H3 gets better mileage then most comparible SUV''''s out there.  There are many of the forementioned vehicles that get worse mileage, ie; sports cars.  Nobody has ever attacked them nearly as much as Hummers. 

I believe people attack the Hummer brand because it is a consolidated brand line and easy to do so as opposed to saying "The Escalade, Tahoe, Silverado, Ridgeline, Explorer, Expedition and all those cars kill the environment"   Why not just make it EASY on yourself and say "Hummers kill the environment" and group every bad thing about SUV''''s into one consolidated brand that everybody knows and is easily recognizable.

Before Hummer made a name for itself in the mainstream market, people just referred to all SUV''''s as being gas-guzzlers and polluting machines.  Now adays, people find it easier to say the word "Hummer" and all hell breaks loose.  Most of these people don''''t know anything technical about the vehicles, but since it''''s so easy to do, they choose the easy, uneducated route.

My H3 gets between 20 to 23 MPGs consistantly on the highway because I simply changed my driving patterns and got a few minor upgrades.  I can''''t speak for the H2 owners, but us H3 owners more-so seem to buy the vehicle for safety, off-roading and weather conditions then anything.  I personally have rarely met an H3 owner that bought their truck just to drive around the street and look pretty.  Some people do and some don''''t.  That doesn''''t necessarily mean I agree with it, but I''''m not going to publically denounce it.

The ironic thing about the entire negative Hummer stereotype is that for decades there have been far worse polluting vehicles out there, including today, that are causing and contributing more then our vehicles. 

And how about other vehicles that cause pollution and aren''''t regulated to our vehicles extent, like train locomotives, semi trucks, farm tractors, coal factories, oil refineries, Nascar and Indy car racing, motorcycles, lawn mowers, RV''''s, ATV''''s, contruction bulldozers, cranes, public busses, BOATS, Cruise Ships, wave runners, jet skis, snow mobiles, Go-Carts, etc.

How many of those above items are luxury items?  How many of us Hummer owners use our vehicles every day for practical purposes? 

There are SO many things in this world that contribute to pollution and as a whole, I would bet Hummers contribute a very small amount of pollution compared to all of those vehicles and engines I mentioned above.

How about the BIG one? Airline jets.  How often do you hear people protesting their pollution levels?  You don''''t, and you know why, because people fly in planes more then they drive Hummers.

It''''s a complete hypocracy in the Hummer-bashing world.  Plain and simple? We are EASY targets.  There is no effort involved in research because everybody knows that Hummers are bad, right? [8|]

Don''''t worry, I''''m not upset.  I''''m just stating my case. [:)] I won''''t even get into how damaging the metals are in Hybrids in the long-run to our environment. 

Bitdriver -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 8:32:05 AM)

Hmm thoughtful questions. Hopefully some of my answers make sense too.

Why I drive my hummer. I have a family. SUVs make sense for me. If I can haul 4-5 people getting about 15mpg vs a smaller car that can comfortably seat 2, with two crammed in the back (also very unsafe), I actually get better ''''used mpg'''' (do the math. 2 people at 30mpg vs. 4 people at 15mpg = same. ) Plus i have dogs, big dogs, that need to go places at times. Cant squeeze an english mastiff in a Prius... (Aint gonna fit.) . (Besides, when he farts, he contributes more to global warming and pollution than my truck ever will. Trust me on that one).

Is it a daily commuter for me ? No. Its used when it has to be used. I work from home, so my average fuel use is lower than any import matchbox car. I fill up once a month. So , for me, the SUV makes sense for what I want to do. And if its gonna be an SUV, may as well get the toughest muther out there that will perform to my expectations. Hummer. Like Nothing else. Period

(and welcome to our little corner of the cyberworld :) )

HummerGuy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 8:40:35 AM)

Just an FYI, some of us Hummer owners own Prius''s are our second vehicles.  There are a handful on this forum.  I just purchased a second car that gets 35 to 40 MPG.  I''m not sure what that would make me anymore, a tree killer, or a environmentalist?  I''m not sure.  I spent almost an extra $10k when our home was being built to make it as green as possible. 

Anybody that tries to tell me anything bad about me driving a Hummer, I always ask about what they''ve done to help the environment.  Most of them say "I recycle" but I bet you don''t have gas-treated windows in your home, the first green classified washer and dryer on the market, double-insulated walls and ceilings, a computer-controlled HVAC system, ceiling fans, every lighting fixture in the house converted to flourescent bulbs, using laptop computers instead of desktops, etc. 

Those things costed me a pretty penny to do to my home, but I didn''t do it to save money, I did it to save my health.

Not all Hummer owners are out to kill trees [;)]



HummerGuy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 8:44:50 AM)

I did forget to welcome you to our forum.  Forgive my rudeness. [:)]  You are most welcome to ask us anything you''d like! 

We are a good bunch of people here, many of which have personal friendships outside the forum because of this place, but we do get our emotions wrapped up in our responses sometimes, ie; myself.  Don''t take it personal.  We are so conditioned to be defensive, it''s a shame we have to do so, but it''s an unfortunate circumstance of owning one of these vehicles.

Bitdriver -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 9:03:12 AM)

And hey Hummerguy... dont forget the fact that Hummer owners help aerate the soil when we offroad which helps promote healthy plant growth :)

HummerGuy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 9:06:29 AM)

There is quite a bit of vegetation in the off-road park we go to.  [;)]

Jeremy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 9:25:15 AM)

Thanks for the intelligent replies thus far, I appreciate the discussion.  I hope it can remain civil.  I will do my best too.

I live in the northern midwest, so I completely understand bad weather and the need for 4 wheel drive.  I own a 2003 Nissan Frontier pick up that sucks gas like a thirsty camel.  The only times I drive that truck though are when I need it in the winter, or hauling stuff year round.  Otherwise it sits, most of the summer it sits for weeks on end.  Otherwise in the summer I ride a little Honda scooter to work and errands.  It gets 100 mpg.

So for those who make the arguement about inclement weather, or even the off roading culture, I can agree with.  At least your vehicle is serving its intended purpose.

It''''s the owners of large SUVs who pimp, bling, trick, etc, them out and they never see a speck of dirt that I don''''t get.  To me, that is just being wasteful for the sake of being wasteful.  Trying to prove a point to someone that doesn''''t really need to be made.  Why is there this inherant need to "prove" or make a "point" by driving a vehicle that is so wasteful?  I guess it''''s the morality of the thing that I have a hard time with.

One poster below talked about the left wing, socialist, tree huggers that are taking over the country.  A couple of points on this.  First of all, you are generalizing a large group of people as believing in one ideal.  The same thing you feel they do to Hummer owners.  Seems hypocritical.  Secondly, (generalization here by me) right wingers seem to be focused on "values".  Is wastefulness one of those values that you are promoting?  My Nissan Frontier was built in Smyrna, Tennessee.

Lastly, I understand the difference between pollution and gas consumption.  They are two different arguements.  I think the Hummer probably pollutes less than a lot of vehicles on the road.  It is built with new technology.  It''''s the 1985 Dodge Minivan spewing blue smoke down the highway that is polluting more.  One thing is certain though, large SUVs (whatever the brand) use more gasoline than many other vehicles.  That''''s where my wastefulness argument comes in.  If you don''''t drive your off road vehicle off road, or if one of your main arguements is to "impress people" why be wasteful?

Oh, I also agree that focus is unfairly placed on SUVs and not on the sports car world.  They too are excessive to the point of being wasteful, and perhaps less functional than an SUV (if the SUV is used as intended).

Again, thanks for letting me participate.

HummerGuy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 9:46:13 AM)

You are one of the first and only people that has come to our forum to have a normal conversation about this topic that hasn''t intentionally tried to cause trouble.  That is VERY appreciated, believe me.

Most of the Hummer owners on this forum use their vehicles for off-roading, road trips, hauling, and just typical every day stuff.  We do have a few members here (HummBob [;)]) that love to upgrade the looks.  Bob does it though because he likes how it looks and takes alot of pride in his truck.  He doesn''t do it to get attention.  There are obviously many people out there who do, but I honestly can tell you I don''t know if I''ve ever came across anybody on here that cared what people thought about their trucks other then their own personal opinions.  If anything, I have personally expressed more interest in caring what people thought then anybody, and I''m not normally like that, but it came from wierd custom things I did that just looked rediculous at the time.

I think a big misconception (a bit off topic) is that Hummer owners that DO in-fact "bling" their trucks do it for the attention.  Of course there are those who do, but in our little realm on this forum, nobody really cares about showing off.  It''s more self-expression then it is showing the world how shiney you can make your truck look.  Nobody has ever come on the forum in the 2 years I''ve been here wondering how they can make their truck get the most attention.

Back to the gas consumption, I think we all have been conditioned in this society to rely on gasoline but not all the blame can be placed on the consumer.  There are plenty of studies out there to support the theories that things such as drilling in Alaska actually promote wildlife. I have watched a few documentaries on PBS about this.  It went against everything I was programmed to believe from the media.  Who is right? We never seem to know.  Just as with Al Gore''s "An Inconvenient Truth" there are now documentaries popping up from even more credible sources in the scientific field that say it''s a very misconstrued look at what is really happening.  Many climatologists argue that global warming as it is now is just a normal cycle of the earth that unfortunately we are living right now.

The point is personally, what choice do I have as a person and an American? I can''t go and buy an electric car, a solar-powered car, can''t ride a bicycle where I live, so what are my choices?  I really don''t have any.  I HAVE to purchase a gasoline vehicle.  Can I purchase something that uses less? Of course I can.  Do I worry about the environment? I do, more for my children then myself.  Can I control the technological advancement of automobiles and promote new technology? Nope.  I sure can''t as an individual. 

We need to stop being so dependant on foriegn energy, ie; oil and concentrate more on using our own resources.  The problem is there are not as good of profits out there as there is in oil.

It''s unfortunate that greed drives the world the way it does, but as consumers, what can we do? Not buy gasoline?  What other alternatives do we have? Most of us have none, other then to drive vehicles that use less of it.  That is the choice the world and auto industry has given us normal everyday people.  Drive a vehicle that gets 30 MPG average, or 20 MPG average.  Unfortunately, that''s not good enough to make a change. 

If someone gave me the option to drive an electic SUV or a gasoline one, I''d be all over the electric one.  Unfortunately, that isn''t going to happen, so mind as well drive something I have a need for then something I''m settling for that isn''t waht I really want, just to save a few gallons of gas.

Again, this is all just my personal opinion, but our world, and even country, we live in, doesn''t give us many other options unfortunately, unless you start saying "Why not walk instead of drive, why not ride  your bike instead of drive?" Well, some of us can''t do that when we live 30, 40, 50, 100 miles from where we work, especially in the midwest where many of us are.  I live outside of Chicago, so being from the midwest, you know our choices are limited, especially considering the winter we just had, which was the longest recorded length of cold weather; 230+ days of temps under 70.

I want to hear what other people think.


Jeremy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 9:56:05 AM)

I''m in Northern Iowa and have lived here all of my life (32 years) and I understand inclement weather.

I also agree that the main problem is our dependency on foreign oil.  We either need to produce it ourselves (not my favorite option) or move technology forward so we can eventually become oil free.  The greedy oil companies are going to do their best to stop technology.

I can appreciate the SUV owners out there who actually use their SUVs for their intended purpose.  I''m glad to know that many of the members of this forum are that way. 

I used to own a Nissan Xterra which didn''t get the best gas mileage either.  I used it for off roading occasionally, towing a small camper, and 4x4 in the winter.  I traded it for the pick up because I thought the truck bed was more functional.

I''m sure you''re getting plenty of trolls lately, which again is unfair to the Hummer crowd.  I honestly just want to discuss it.

Thanks - Jeremy

HummerGuy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 10:09:24 AM)

I have been fortunate enough not to get anybody commenting in person about my truck.  I''ve only had the finger thrown at me once (which probably wasn''t because I drove a Hummer) and I haven''t had anybody at the gas station make comments.  Many of the forum members have though unfortunately.

If you ever traded your truck for a Hummer, there is a definite tight-night brotherhood I guess you can say with owning one, but it''s more so because we seem to have this expectation of having to explain ourselves to everybody and quite honestly, we shouldn''t have to.  You''d would see alot of that if you purchased one.

They aren''t as bad as people think.  More people seem to buy H2''s for street purposes the H3''s.  The H3''s end up being the real work horses.

I want to see what people purchasing the H3T are going to use it for more, leisure or hauling.

Jeremy -> RE: Questions (7/8/2008 10:16:20 AM)

I love the looks of the H3, but I can''t justify, nor do I want to own one.


  

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