RE: GM and Hummer to split?
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 4:47:26 AM
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Fox
Posts: 13
Joined: 6/4/2008
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Damn this is totally dissapointing. I really hoped to own a H3 one day  . I actually like SUVs & Trucks in general so its bad on all levels.
Someone said this on another forum although not specifically aimed at the Hummer -
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CAFE has pretty much killed most of these old school cars anyway for the future so get used to larger cars with horribly limited engines that will not make them very balenced for those looking for the powerhouses again. Anyone remember the 70's? The death of the Muscle car was happening back then, this time it's the death of the larger small blocks because of CAFE.... Enjoy whatever you've got in those engines because that's about all she wrote on them. Unlike the old muscle cars though, they made so many of these newer cars that I doubt many hold their value or become more desireable as the years tick by... Either way, I really don't care either way, we do not get to pick our car's setup as much anymore anyway, we have to take what is offered in a package more often than not so you really don't get to choose anyway.
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 5:01:23 AM
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Hummer Dog
Posts: 57
Joined: 5/16/2008
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CAFE was a speedbump, it took the car manufacturers about 20 years to bring performance back after fuel economy and emission standards forced us into cars we didn't want to buy.
Why do you think the SUV and truck market exploded? It was a result of the backlash against Mustang II's, Chevy Celebrity's, and a entire fleet of similar underpowered, small cars that most of us couldn't live with, so we bought the only large V8s still out there, first we bought pickups and then we bought SUVs. A great example of the law of unintended consequences (just like ethanol). The government created the SUV market by regulating passenger car fuel economy!
I wonder what the next round will be? Will we install coal liquifaction hardware in our garages to make fuel for our rides?
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2006 H2 SUT
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2005 K2500HD Duramax
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 6:26:14 AM
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ockie
Posts: 460
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wantitforfree
I've been a lurker on this board for a while. I read this and a couple of other forums for SUV owners, of which I am one. No, I don't own a Hummer. Am I still allowed to post here? Do I have your permission?
Yep, we got a troll.
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Point taken, I did not take into account the H3.
This makes your post arrogant, you bitch about our SUV's yet you don't even realize the entire lineup.
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Diesel is in higher demand than gasoline worldwide. I'm glad to hear that GM has made advancements in these areas, but diesel is amongst the costliest fuels available right now. Unless the diesel technology about to be offered is on par with the turbo diesels coming out of europe and japan (VW and Honda, resepectively), I'm not holding my breath for an efficiency breakthrough, but please tell me if I'm wrong here.
You are wrong here. GM's new diesel is expected to be the most efficient and the least EVN producing machine.
If you don't think a 8,500lbs truck that can get 20-24mpg, pull 10,000lbs, and haul 7 people and gear is efficient, then I don't know what to tell you.
It's great to have a little Honda that get 60mpg, but with no tow value and enough room for tiny smurfs... I'd hardly call that efficient. Great if you are a heterosexual and live alone... bad if you have a family and a boat for example.
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You are mixing apples and oranges in your argument. If you don't think that radical advancements need to be made in energy production and consumption, you are a luddite (look it up).
No mixing is needed, you come to a Hummer forum, bash the fuel efficiencies, what do you expect? Us to assume you are not talking about hummer but talking about general energy production?
I don't need to look up the term... a little pretentious are we?
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Yes, there are plenty of cars that get rotten gas mileage; previously mentioned brother also owns a Ford Expedition and I think its mileage is not as good as the Hummer, I could be wrong. MPG are not the only thing to consider when you decide what to drive, but the piper must be paid.
So what are the things you consider? Do you have your little own home made list on what you consider is efficient or not? Do we need to work with your standards to be approved?
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As for 'hybrid crap', I play to trade my gasoline powered Ford (which gets about 22 MPG Hwy) in for a hybrid in a couple of years when the critter I own now has run its course.
Yep, we got a leaflicking troll.
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I'll ask you this: If GM developed a hybrid drive system that were efficient and powerful for the Hummer, would you buy one, or do you just like busting on the word 'hybrid'?
No one seems to think about the energy that goes into the production of battery systems nor do they think about what happens with that acid eventually (it can not be dumped). I believe there are better alternatives than hybrid.
Hybrids are a concept of offloading one energy source to another energy source, so it looks less of each and appears more efficient. So you get a great MPG, what about that battery acid and extra motor that you have to keep upkept. You would be dumping hundreds of pounds in batteries in your ride, increasing the road wear and increasing the tire wear... you also create a hazardous issue when it comes to accidents (spils) and fire fighters (electrocution).
With a diesel, i can clock 600,000 miles on the engine and it will still be running strong. 300k isn't uncommon for a diesel... do you really think you can maintain one battery bank for that many miles? Do you think your car would maintain that many miles with the motor or without replacing anything?
I prefer to look at the overall energy consumption rather than close binocular view. I also have pulling needs (Snowmobiles, Boat, Jetskis, Bikes, potentially a camper in the future)... I also like trails and off road areas where one can enjoy nature. A hybrid can't deliver on that.
When Hummer comes out with something such as that and I have the option to switch, I would, but other than that, you can stop your parading of how we are so bad on energy.
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Call it crap all you want. When we're paying as much for gasoline as the rest of the world here in the US, the economics of the situation will be laid plain, IMHO.
This is false. We are still one of the lowest gas priced nations of the advanced nation category. Only oil rich nations still exceed our gas prices, we have some of the lowest prices in the world.
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See you at the pump.
Cute. See you in the morgue when your hybrid is trapped under an 18 wheeler... or just a regular SUV.
PS. Are you using CFL light bulbs in your home? How about this computer you are typing on, is it 80+ certified? What about your fridge and appliances? are they energy star? Do you have R40 insulation double walls? What about your home temperature... do you keep it average or cool? I can tell you that I have all of these, so before you go on your anti-hummer leaf licker environmentalist triad, remember that some of us have exceptional energy conservation at home which makes up for more than our share of inefficiency... keep that in mind next time you switch lights on in your home.
< Message edited by ockie -- 6/4/2008 6:34:44 AM >
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 6:39:50 AM
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3hummers
Posts: 11789
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Nice ockie, I like!!!
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1997 H1 wagon
2008 H3 Alpha
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 8:55:32 AM
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Fox
Posts: 13
Joined: 6/4/2008
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Well on the other hand my fear of not being able to own a Hummer might not be all that big, some people will probably sell H3s as used vehicles aswell so doesent mean they will just disappear into thin air. BTW I am only 17 but I just dream of owning one one day 
I remember reading some treehugger's comments talking about how the "the POS F-150" was wasteful and useless. Tell me how a pickup doesent have its functions, are people stupid? You can tow things and let me see you get that plywood or that shiny stainless steel grille home in a Prius.
< Message edited by Fox -- 6/4/2008 9:08:17 AM >
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 12:53:49 PM
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Hummer Dog
Posts: 57
Joined: 5/16/2008
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It's interesting to see otherwise intelligent people turn into a-holes because of a well recognized brand name. I've had too many people approach me in the last two days with the same basic remark "haha, Hummer is going out of business, what do you think of your truck now" or some equally inane remark. I've owned lots of different vehicles over the years, but this is by far the most anger-inducing one I've ever had. Envy? Jealousy? Ignorance?
I think I'll buy my wife an H3! This is too funny.
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 1:31:38 PM
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Fox
Posts: 13
Joined: 6/4/2008
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I agree Hummer Dog. I like to make use of a example I made -
Take any random SUV or Truck off the road and exchange the current make/grille logo for Hummer brand and you'd probably get the same crap just because it says Hummer instead of something else.
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 5:10:21 PM
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Intercooled
Posts: 246
Joined: 7/18/2005
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Some choose to buy beer, scratch tickets,cigeretts or gamble. I choose to put my hard earned money into something that is fun and exciteing, My H2. Maybe if some would stop buying that 12 pack eveyday after work they could afford the extra gas expense.
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 7:07:44 PM
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3hummers
Posts: 11789
Joined: 9/23/2007
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Fox you might be able to afford a Hummer even sooner than you thought if you can pick one up from one of the people that panic and bail out of theirs.
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1997 H1 wagon
2008 H3 Alpha
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/4/2008 7:27:45 PM
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wantitforfree
Posts: 4
Joined: 6/3/2008
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This makes your post arrogant, you bitch about our SUV''s yet you don''t even realize the entire lineup.
Conceding a point makes me arrogant? Nice try, son.
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You are wrong here.
No, I''m not. Diesel is one of the most in-demand, expensive fuels.
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GM''s new diesel is expected to be the most efficient and the least EVN producing machine.
If you don''t think a 8,500lbs truck that can get 20-24mpg, pull 10,000lbs, and haul 7 people and gear is efficient, then I don''t know what to tell you.
You know, you actually are kinda smart. Too bad you have to come across as such a freaking ass, which really interferes with your ability to make a point.
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It''s great to have a little Honda that get 60mpg, but with no tow value and enough room for tiny smurfs... I''d hardly call that efficient. Great if you are a heterosexual and live alone... bad if you have a family and a boat for example.
I have a family, but no boat. Hate the water. I have an SUV for hauling stuff, road trips and recreation and a sedan for commuting. I don''t need my sedan to tow. Or run over other cars. My brother does need and want this. He owns a Hummer.
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No mixing is needed, you come to a Hummer forum, bash the fuel efficiencies, what do you expect?
You''re not very good at proving a point, are you? Many of your arguments are ad hominem.
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So what are the things you consider? Do you have your little own home made list on what you consider is efficient or not? Do we need to work with your standards to be approved?
Home made as opposed to... store bought? This is America, you can drive whatever the hell you want. Drive a Hummer, Honda, Lamborghini or a Rolls. If your fuel is more expensive, your vehicle will cost more to run. The real cost of owning and operating any vehicle has gone up - the lower your efficiency, the higher your real cost. The higher the overall cost of owning the vehicle, the slower the sales of the vehicle will be. Economics.
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No one seems to think about the energy that goes into the production of battery systems nor do they think about what happens with that acid eventually (it can not be dumped). I believe there are better alternatives than hybrid.
I''m happy to hear of them. Byproducts from refineries are no walk in the park, either (and no, I don''t think refineries should be shut down. We actually need more.)
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Hybrids are a concept of offloading one energy source to another energy source, so it looks less of each and appears more efficient.
Energy is energy. There are different methods of delivery and production. More efficient production is more efficient production - your point? Any type of delivery method for energy is ''offloading''.
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With a diesel, i can clock 600,000 miles on the engine and it will still be running strong. 300k isn''t uncommon for a diesel... do you really think you can maintain one battery bank for that many miles? Do you think your car would maintain that many miles with the motor or without replacing anything?
I never busted on diesels, and you are acting like I did. Diesels are great, efficient machines. But in case you haven''t noticed, diesel fuel''s cost is skyrocketing. Unless you do the biodiesel thing at home - a cool thing, but time consuming.
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I prefer to look at the overall energy consumption rather than close binocular view. I also have pulling needs (Snowmobiles, Boat, Jetskis, Bikes, potentially a camper in the future)... I also like trails and off road areas where one can enjoy nature. A hybrid can''t deliver on that.
A hybrid can''t yet deliver on that, but may someday - you don''t know. Of course, if you have towing needs for your boat, snowmobile, etc. you''re going to have a car that can pull it. I didn''t say you shouldn''t. Drive what you want. Your ability to pay to run it regularly might be hampered, though. And you don''t need to go down the path of ''I make a good living, I can afford the gas''. I make a nice living, too. That''s not what we''re discussing here.
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When Hummer comes out with something such as that and I have the option to switch, I would, but other than that, you can stop your parading of how we are so bad on energy.
Thank you for finally answering my question. I''ll say whatever I wish, thanks.
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We are still one of the lowest gas priced nations of the advanced nation category. Only oil rich nations still exceed our gas prices, we have some of the lowest prices in the world.
Will you please re-read what I wrote? I know we don''t pay much for gas, that was my point! I am saying that one day (if the oil subsidy is discontinued, for example...) you may be actually exposed to the real-world fuel market.
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Cute. See you in the morgue when your hybrid is trapped under an 18 wheeler... or just a regular SUV.
So, uh... a hybrid SUV is more likely to be trapped under an 18 wheeler? What did you smoke for breakfast?
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PS. Are you using CFL light bulbs in your home?
How about this computer you are typing on, is it 80+ certified?
What about your fridge and appliances? are they energy star? Do you have R40 insulation double walls? What about your home temperature... do you keep it average or cool?
Yes. Yes. Yes, except for my stove (gas - do they make gas energy star? I don''t know.) No, my house is almost 100 years old. I keep it cool (with my very efficient central AC) in the deep summer. I hate humidity. It''s wasteful, I know.
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I can tell you that I have all of these, so before you go on your anti-hummer leaf licker environmentalist triad,
do you mean tirade? I''m not anti-Hummer, I''m anti-inefficiency. And anti-ignorant-mouth-breather. Continuing.
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remember that some of us have exceptional energy conservation at home which makes up for more than our share of inefficiency... keep that in mind next time you switch lights on in your home.
You live in the dark? I get it now.
Listen dude, you need to reread my original post. My basic point is that fuel has gone up. It may go down, but not as low as it was before. Hummers are fun vehicles, but peoples'' ability to operate them is going to be impacted. Not that they won''t still, but it''ll cost more. You want to pay it, fine. But the era of cheap gas was an anomaly and is over.
By the way, I don''t claim to have all the answers and you have the right to drive what you want; I never said you didn''t! It''s just going to be more expensive from now on.
I''ve gotta run, I need to go hug a tree before I cut it down with my new stihl. What can I tell you... we all have our vices.
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RE: GM and Hummer to split? - 6/5/2008 4:54:04 AM
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OnAll4s
Posts: 53
Joined: 5/1/2008
From: Oregon
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Some people just want/need to get from point A to point B, so they buy what ever car will get them there at the cheapest price in gas and auto.
Me, I want/need to get from point A to point B safe, comfortable and in style. I also need to be able to tow my boat when I need/want to. Yeah, I hate the price of gas, but I also hate what''s it''s costing to heat my house too. I also hate that a can of coffee is over 10 bucks. What are we gonna do? Give up and drive tin cans, be cold in our own homes, drink hot water instead of coffee?
This sums it up.
New Hummer H2 $67,583
Filling the gas tank about every 300 miles $127.00
Owning a Hummer H2 that can tow your boat, comfortable to ride in, go just about anywhere off road, getting there safe and in style, PRICELESS
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