RE: Hydrogen anyone?

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RE: Hydrogen anyone?

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RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 1:28:46 PM

davyo

Posts: 125
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chk hrd

Thier claims sound pretty good...and you know what they say, if it sounds to good to be true it probably isn't...

Actually, the saying is, "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is".

Cheers
Davyo

(in reply to chk hrd)

Post #: 16

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 3:13:59 PM

novasaigo

Posts: 158
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline

I have been looking at the hydrogen option for a while.
I remember a hydrogen powered H2 all over the internet, what was the reason for that one not being produced for the public?

Nova...

(in reply to davyo)

Post #: 17

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 5:07:15 PM

GorillaH2

Posts: 1413
Joined: 7/30/2007
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Problem with hydrogen is that it is not widely availaible and gas stations have not switched to water yet...and reeljeep, if you can get it to work more power to you, just dont blow yourself up

(in reply to novasaigo)

Post #: 18

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 5:24:15 PM

RealJeep

Posts: 725
Status: offline

I find it inconcieveable that people worry about Hydrogen (H2) all the while thinking gasoline is as safe as any elemental compound on Earth. Well brothers and sisters, I'm here to tell ya that gasoline is some nasty stuff! It's much nastier than Hydrogen gas and it's a liquid as opposed to a gas thus making it a potential environmental hazard also. SO here's the deal with (H2) it's made in small quantities in your vehicle and it only burns as much as needed. None is stored in or on the vehicle and it's a fuel supplement, not a fuel. Burning pure H2 is in our future because the Chinese and Indians will soon deplete every last drop of oil on Earth. So here's the skinny...Coming to a filling station near you http://www.hydrogen.gov/

(in reply to GorillaH2)

Post #: 19

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 6:04:53 PM

H threeAlpha

Posts: 33
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline

Nova,
the problem with those hummers was the tanks involved to hold the hydrogen were so large( two that took up the back area and one on the underside ) it wasn't practicle with the 100 mile range to make them in production( but fun to drive..not).
The problem with running straight hydrogen on a vehicle is simpley the shear volume of gas needed to run the engine. Better storage in more solid form is definately on the way but still needs work for practicle range applications.
In a recent project we had a 572 cubic inch twin turbo engine on the dyno that we could normally trip over and make over 2000 + horsepower barely and i mean barely make 800 hp on pure hydrogen !

and you would not believe the volume of gas it took to do this. Now i'm not sure about any of this if it is a mix with conventional fuel but on the pure end i speak from experience.

_____________________________

'08 graphite metallic H3 Alpha adventure +

(in reply to RealJeep)

Post #: 20

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 6:52:46 PM

GorillaH2

Posts: 1413
Joined: 7/30/2007
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I was joking around when I said dont blow yourself up...take a joke

BTW there is no current techonology that gives as much energy per volume as gasoline

(in reply to H threeAlpha)

Post #: 21

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 7:16:08 PM

RealJeep

Posts: 725
Status: offline

From what I'm reading the H2 is produced in the engine compartment using distilled H2O. A current is passed through the H2O releasing the Oxygen molecule from the Hydrogen and the H2 floats up and escapes the liquid. The free Hydrogen is then collected and drawn into a vacuum source and introduced into the combustion chamber thus increasing the burn effectiveness of the combustion process. There is a lot more to the process but you get the idea. There are a bunch of YouTube videos with guys increasing their mileage and power with a simple H2 Generator.

Back to my original post:

Has ANYONE on here with experience in newer engines thought about doing something like this?
Would introducing small amounts of H2 into the fuel/air mixture adverely affect the engine and cause a lean burn situation?
Since the engine will obviously burn MUCH cleaner, how will the O2 sensor react to this?
Will there be a heat problem due to the fact H2 burns so hot?

That's all I really want to know. I'm always interested in more HP, cleaner burn, better fuel mileage and cleaner air. I think it could be done but I think there are evil forces supressing this information.

(in reply to GorillaH2)

Post #: 22

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 7:36:31 PM

rhill20

Posts: 4549
Joined: 10/27/2007
From: Delaware, Ohio GO BUCKS!
Status: offline

RJ, there was a tread on here a while back about something similar. It worked like Gorilla said, I believe he was the one that posted it or said that he was going to buy it and let us know how it worked

I don't technically know anything about the mechanics of this, but I can tell you IMO that you won't be seeing it very soon as long as they can charge you $4 or more gallon and you keep buying it. Why would they let you work this into the picture? Cuts in on their show.

Good luck. If you do figure it out or find the answers please let us know. I'm sure that after the good hearted fun that we were having that we would all be interested in saving a few bucks. Heck, might be able to spend it on more mods

_____________________________

(in reply to RealJeep)

Post #: 23

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 3/24/2008 7:51:52 PM

RealJeep

Posts: 725
Status: offline

Hey Rich,

I don't mind a bit being ragged on personally. However I was expecting at least ONE relevent answer to my question in this thread. From what I'm reading I don't see how this can be a bad idea. Crap! Who wouldn't want to save 40% in mileage? At 14 MPG even I could figure that out in real dollars (Loonies or Pesos) for you NAFTA fans. This is probably something I'll do in the future when the warranty expires and maybe before since you can unhook it at any time and nobody would ever know it was there. Stay tuned...You'll be hearing more about this I'm sure because Big Oil can't supress YouTube and the Internet.

(in reply to rhill20)

Post #: 24

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 10/10/2008 4:40:20 AM

Keepa2md

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/29/2008
Status: offline

Yup, HHO is a great idea, i''ve been working on a project myself, and have been having great results. haven''t installed it in my 07 H3 yet, but the old rusty Ford has been running on a mixture of HHO and gasoline for over 3 months now...with no problems. As for runnign an engine on just hydrogen, it is verrrry possiable, however many many more modifications need to be done for the engine to last, like having your pistons ceramic coated...hydrogen is very corrosive, and then there is the idea of storing enough H to continiously run the engine. storage is a bad idea and much more hazardous...ie the Hindenburg...most HHO generators you are seeing only produce a minimal amount of H on demand only while the truck is running, and when piped in to the intake vaccume, all H gas is sucked into the engine. very safe when done right. sorry for the long thread, 1st timer here

(in reply to Hummer Guy)

Post #: 25

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 10/10/2008 7:32:29 AM

novasaigo

Posts: 158
Joined: 2/24/2007
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I look forward to hearing more on your project vehicle.

(in reply to Keepa2md)

Post #: 26

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 10/10/2008 10:32:01 AM

silicone boy

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Joined: 11/7/2007
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Not really informed about it, but from elementary school experiments where we separated hydrogen from water, you would get very little hydrogen to burn, far less than the energy that it took to produce it.

(in reply to geeggee)

Post #: 27

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 10/11/2008 12:46:51 AM

canuckZr2

Posts: 16
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline

About ten years or so ago i saw a dragster that was run on Hydrogen and 10% gas (I think) it as th wiredest thing to see steam shoot out of the zoomies and the car went in the 9''s ...As for storage i would think that if you got hit you''d most likely clear a town from the blast

(in reply to silicone boy)

Post #: 28

RE: Hydrogen anyone? - 10/11/2008 6:45:34 AM

Wrongway1

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Joined: 8/24/2007
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While fuel cells themselves are potentially highly energy efficient, and working prototypes were made by Roger E. Billings in the 1960s, at least four technical obstacles and other political considerations exist regarding the development and use of a fuel cell-powered hydrogen car.

[edit] Fuel cell cost
Currently, hydrogen fuel cells are costly to produce and are fragile. Engineers are studying how to produce inexpensive fuel cells that are robust enough to survive the bumps and vibrations that all automobiles experience. Also, many designs require rare substances such as platinum as a catalyst in order to work properly. Such a catalyst can also become contaminated by impurities in the hydrogen supply. In the past few years, however, a nickel-tin catalyst has been under development which may lower the cost of cells.[8]
Fuel cells are generally priced in USD/kW, and data is scarce regarding costs. Ballard Power Systems is virtually alone in publishing such data. Their 2005 figure was $73 USD/kW (based on high volume manufacturing estimates), which they said was on track to achieve the U.S. DoE''s 2010 goal of $30 USD/kW. This would achieve closer parity with internal combustion engines for automotive applications, allowing a 100 kW fuel cell to be produced for $3000. 100 kW is about 134 hp.[9]

[edit] Freezing conditions
Temperatures below freezing 32F or 0 C are a major concern with fuel cells operations. Operational Fuel cells have an internal vaporous water environment that could solidify if the fuel cell and contents are not kept above 0 Celsius ( 32 F). Most fuel cell designs are not as yet robust enough to survive in below freezing environments. Frozen solid, especially before start up, they would not be able to begin working. Once running though, heat is a byproduct of the fuel cell process, which would keep the fuel cell at an adequate operational temperature to function correctly. This makes startup of the fuel cell a major concern in cold weather operation. Places such as Canada or Alaska where temperatures can reach -40C ( -40F) at startup would not be able to use early model fuel cells. Ballard announced that it has already hit the U.S. DoE''s 2010 target for cold weather starting which was 50% power achieved in 30 seconds at -20 °C.[10] Possibly the incorporation of a preheat device would help to lessen such problems if the energy drain was not too great on the vehicle''s batteries.
Just as early gasoline cars struggled with the carburetion problems before becoming universally practical, so fuel cells have to work out startup and long term reliability problems. Then they will be solid enough to hold up to the extreme hardships of cold weather operation.

[edit] Service life
Although service life is coupled to cost, fuel cells have to be compared to existing machines with a service life in excess of 5000 hours[11] for stationary and light-duty. Marine PEM fuel cells reached the target in 2004[12] Research is going on especially for heavy duty like in the bus trials which are targeted up to a service life of 30,000 hours.

(in reply to canuckZr2)

Post #: 29