RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 11:37:53 AM
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TheGunnyRet
Posts: 302
Joined: 11/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: importkiller
that's not really true about resonators coming after the muffler.....ALL import cars that have the can muffler at the bumper have a resonator near the rear axle. Same thing on the old chevy beretta, there was a cat, resonator then can muffler at the bumper. Most cars with rear mounted mufflers have a forward mounted resonator...look at the link Doc gave for the I5 exhaust and you'll see a forward mounted resonator then the rear mounted muffler.
So I guess this was a figmant of my imagination on my recent 2007 Dodge. You can't say something is not really true because different MANUFACTURERS have DIFFERENT configurations. Not all Imports have that either my past VW Golf, VW Passat, Suzuki Sprint Didn't. I can see why some members get annoyed.
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 12:13:10 PM
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Doc Olds
Posts: 3550
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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The alpha has a set of maifold CATs way up front just like darn near every GM made now does for the early start up emissions concerns because they heat up quick. The second CATs are the ones you should be able to replace with high flows if you are making a system. The front ones are monitored. I would double check that the CATs in the pipe are not.
This thread was started to express disgust in a system attempted to be made with parts of an 02 Trans Am Magnaflow sytem/the muffler. Hardly tuned by Magnaflow for an 08 Alpha. So we cannot conclude the apples to oranges comparison is really justification for chopping up the stock system just yet. The Alpha will have systems MADE for it available soon, it is only February people. 
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 12:19:51 PM
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Doc Olds
Posts: 3550
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From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhill20
I wish I had about 2 grand laying around. Exhaust, hilljobs roof rack, PCMforless, Granetelli MAF.  Oh yea, the atlas transfer case too. Guess I should wish for about 4 grand
Granetelli MAF....? No apps for the H3, yet? I bet they won't have one for the I5 because their snake oil claims won't work with the stock configuration MAF placement. A PCM tune can do the same stuff. 
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 12:28:41 PM
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TheGunnyRet
Posts: 302
Joined: 11/21/2007
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Maybe it was the "that's really not true" and "All" part that kinda set me off because of the few Brands you might have dealt with and if you notice I said "usually". I try to generalize because I know that not ALL manufacturers are the same and I haven't had experiance with all of them either. And yes I know the I5 has one before the muffler.
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 12:30:59 PM
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rhill20
Posts: 4548
Joined: 10/27/2007
From: Delaware, Ohio GO BUCKS!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doc Olds
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhill20
I wish I had about 2 grand laying around. Exhaust, hilljobs roof rack, PCMforless, Granetelli MAF. Oh yea, the atlas transfer case too. Guess I should wish for about 4 grand
Granetelli MAF....? No apps for the H3, yet? I bet they won't have one for the I5 because their snake oil claims won't work with the stock configuration MAF placement. A PCM tune can do the same stuff.
Thanks Doc, wasn't aware that they were "snake oil". There are so many out there that are, kind of why I mention these things in passing hoping that someone will say something. So the PCM tune will do the same?
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 12:39:29 PM
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alphadogg
Posts: 358
Joined: 12/30/2007
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Well I had gone out to the garage to make room for my Alpha so I could get in out of the weather for the purpose of taking some pictures of the exhaust system to post but now I'm more confused then ever! You guys are arguing about mufflers & resinators on the Trans Ams, Mustangs, Dodge Trucks, imports, VW Golf, VW Passat, Suzuki. All I wanted to know about was the friggin' H3 Alpha. I'm not sure I want to get involved. Sorry but I think I'll sit this one out.
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 12:45:55 PM
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TheGunnyRet
Posts: 302
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Jet has a Hi-flow MAS for GM 5.3. I do know the MAC CAI has a replacement 72.5mm MAS replacing the stock one on the I5 but I think that is the same size as the stock one. Why you want to put an 02 TransAm muffler on a Alpha seems usless to me.
Only 2 of us are arguing, and I am done with that as well. I am just noting that there are many exhaust configurations and basing our analysis on what has been said and reference past experiance on the given.
< Message edited by TheGunnyRet -- 2/10/2008 12:57:26 PM >
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 1:10:34 PM
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importkiller
Posts: 7254
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alphadogg
Well I had gone out to the garage to make room for my Alpha so I could get in out of the weather for the purpose of taking some pictures of the exhaust system to post but now I'm more confused then ever! You guys are arguing about mufflers & resinators on the Trans Ams, Mustangs, Dodge Trucks, imports, VW Golf, VW Passat, Suzuki. All I wanted to know about was the friggin' H3 Alpha. I'm not sure I want to get involved. Sorry but I think I'll sit this one out.
seriously, if that little arguement is enough to keep you out of the discussion then your not long for this site. There are always gonna be disagreements...that's all that was. I have no hard feeling and I'm sure the gunny doesn't either....good lord, it was just a little arguement.
There is nothing to be confused about...the I5 has a cat in the exhaust manifold that are monitored, it has a cat after the manifold collectors, under the passenger seat area...then it has a resonator, then has the rear mounted muffler. I assume the alpha is the same as GM runs this setup alot of thier trucks. So the alpha would have two manifold cats, then an inline cat then a resonator then the rear mounted muffler. A picture would ice what kind of system it really does have though.
now post pictures of the exhaust.
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 1:30:29 PM
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TheGunnyRet
Posts: 302
Joined: 11/21/2007
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I agree, if you want our advice we can't help by guessing.
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 2:22:14 PM
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Patches
Posts: 190
Joined: 10/13/2007
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I would have put my Alpha on my lift to get some better shots but it's too cold to be shuffling cars on and off the lift today so I just settled for crawling under and getting the following shots.
The driver's side "pre-cat" or "pup-cats" as they are also known. There is one of these coming off each of the exhaust manifolds, driver and passenger, just after the O2 sensor. The pup-cats light off faster than the main cats to keep cold start emissions low. I'm not familiar enough with the H3 to know if it also uses an Air Injection Reation (AIR) system to pump fresh air into the exhaust stream on cold starts to reduce emissions until the cats warm up enough. That air is injected for only the first few minutes of a cold start.
Here's the passenger-side O2 sensor there are two, one on each exhaust manifold collector. These are essential to the operation of the engine as they monitor air/fuel ratio and allow the PCM to constantly adjust fuel injector pulse width and try and maintain as close to stoichiometric (14.7:1) air/fuel ratio as possible except on wide-open-throttle (WOT) where Power Enrichment (PE) mode is enabled which is essentially just a rich mixture for safety. GM, as far as I know, uses only narrow-band sensors so they cannot be used for tuning purposes. Wide bands have to be added (as I do on my vettes) in order to be able to tune the car using one of the sw/hw packages available.
Here you can see the relationship of the driver's sensor to the pup-cat (shot taken pointing towards rear of rig).
Both sides continue back to a main cat, one of which can be seen in the pic below. Surprisingly, there is no secondary, colder O2 sensor behind each of these cats. It's surprising because the rear O2's in other GM setups like my vettes monitor the operation of the rear cats and report an emissions DTC if one or both fail due to clogging or other problem. The tuning software allows these sensors (their trouble code generators, really) to be shut off so that they can be removed or replaced with a high-flow aftermarket version. This means none of the 4 cats is monitored by the PCM.
The exhaust then continues rearward where the two sides meet up and merge into a single pipe. The driver's-side flattens out for a short distance before the Y to traverse and clear one of the crossmembers where there's not enough room for the round pipe to pass.
The single pipe is interrupted at this point, just after the Y by the resonator . . .
. . . and then continues over the passenger-side rear axle to the muffler.
The exhaust gasses exit the muffler out the driver-side-only tail pipe.
It seems that running a true dual exhaust will be a little bit of a challenge due to the fuel tank that blocks access to the driver's side. Dual is still possible but would be circuitous as the driver's side makes a detour around the tank. An x-pipe section could be placed further back, possibly in the area where the resonator currently resides. Clearance for heade
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 3:51:46 PM
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alphadogg
Posts: 358
Joined: 12/30/2007
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Patches,
I just signed on to post some pictures but alas you beat me to it! Thank you very much for the great shots as I know how difficult it was to get a decent shot without lifting the truck. Now we all can be enlightened.
< Message edited by alphadogg -- 2/10/2008 3:56:37 PM >
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RE: Alpha Exhaust... BIG DISAPPOINTMENT! - 2/10/2008 4:15:13 PM
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alphadogg
Posts: 358
Joined: 12/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: importkiller
seriously, if that little arguement is enough to keep you out of the discussion then your not long for this site. There are always gonna be disagreements...that's all that was. I have no hard feeling and I'm sure the gunny doesn't either....good lord, it was just a little arguement.
mr. importkiller,
I have been around enough forums to see "little arguments" like that turn into nasty full blown wars and not knowing the relationship between you and TheGunny I did not know what direction that was going so I simply did not want to be involved. I'm at a point in my life that I don't need to prove anything to anyone and don't need any stress or BS from anyone either. Everyone here has been a great help to me but I certainly don’t expect anyone to get their shorts in a knot over something I’ve asked about. Thanks for all your help.
Gar
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