RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info
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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits ... - 11/15/2007 7:58:01 AM
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HummerGuy
Posts: 6406
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It's kinda like that theory they teach you in school that says what comes in must go out, or, any kind of energy you produce has some kind of other effect down the line. That's some very interesting stuff. So in esense or theory you could be actually making our Ozone layer deplete more by using Ethanol then using normal Gasoline?
The economics I understand completely. I actually wrote a post about this earlier in the year, about how farmers around my area have been taking their farms off the market and more E85 pumps are popping up.
From reading all of this info and hearing everybody's comments, it's starting to seem like we really aren't going to know what is best right now as you say. There seems to be alot of mixed opinions and information coming out, but I care more about statistics and facts then I do about what people's personal opinions are.
When you post information as you did, comparing the economic factors to the environmental ones, it kinda puts things in persepctive for me a bit, which is kinda making it look more pointless to me at this time.
Thanks for that information! I can't wait to see what more people have to say about it.
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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits ... - 11/15/2007 11:35:39 AM
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Steve #1
Posts: 347
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: TEXAS
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Camou2 covered it pretty well.
E85 has been made to look good on paper. It's making corn farmers happy, it's making the business men that made investments in refining happy, it makes the politicians happy, it makes some of the greenies happy, and it makes the soccermoms driving there Tahoes happy because they think they are saving the planet.
I could go on and on.... but I won't, there's tons of information out there for both sides of the argument. Take note of the source of the information before you put any stock in it.
BTW: As much as I'm against E85, it's trickall down effect is good for my family's soy bean farm. 
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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits ... - 11/15/2007 11:50:55 AM
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HummerGuy
Posts: 6406
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Well like I said, I really appreciate you guys getting into the topic and providing your feedback. If anything good comes out of it, it will be that a few of us are more educated about it. I'm sure we aren't the only ones reading this thread, so people will at least get a broader perspective of the big picture.
I guess it is a never-ending topic. It seems there are more negative impacts then positive one.
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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits ... - 11/15/2007 12:29:39 PM
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Doc Olds
Posts: 3188
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Boat Town USA (Michigan 48045)
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You know I was watching this show the other day about alternative fuel. They were talking about another interesting aspest of E85 production, being the various crops from which the ETOH can be grown from. Corn was about the least efficient because they said for every one unit of fossil fuel (gas/deisel etc.) to plant, cultivate, harvest, haul and produce the ETOH from corn, they only get 1.4 units of ETOH back out. They predict that when they figure out to use switchgrass to produce ETOH it will yield 4 units of ETOH per unit of fossil fuel??? The switchgrass stuff isn't even figured out yet so it is just based on predtictions from aggricultural eggheads. They also talked about units of ETOH per acre, corn was very weak. It was all news to me and clearly shows there is no simple answer yet.
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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits ... - 11/15/2007 1:15:00 PM
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Steve #1
Posts: 347
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: TEXAS
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doc Olds
You know I was watching this show the other day about alternative fuel. They were talking about another interesting aspest of E85 production, being the various crops from which the ETOH can be grown from. Corn was about the least efficient because they said for every one unit of fossil fuel (gas/deisel etc.) to plant, cultivate, harvest, haul and produce the ETOH from corn, they only get 1.4 units of ETOH back out. They predict that when they figure out to use switchgrass to produce ETOH it will yield 4 units of ETOH per unit of fossil fuel??? The switchgrass stuff isn't even figured out yet so it is just based on predtictions from aggricultural eggheads. They also talked about units of ETOH per acre, corn was very weak. It was all news to me and clearly shows there is no simple answer yet.
Brazil uses a lot of ethanol. As I recall, their regular gas is blended 25% with ethanol with 40% of there fuel being primarily ethanol (think E85 but it is more than 85%). Why does it work so well in Brazil? They use sugar cane which is much more efficient than corn.
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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits ... - 11/15/2007 7:51:35 PM
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Camou2
Posts: 163
Joined: 6/24/2007
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Steve, what you say about Brazil is correct but that is not the whole story. Brazil started subsidizing sugar cane ethanol production probably 30 years ago to help their starving farmers and because they could not really afford to be competitive in the open market for oil in that period of their history. So, for years both the price of ethanol was government regulated and the farming of source products i.e. sugar cane and baggass was subsidized. So, what did that get them today?
1. "The ethanol program was not perfect and brought a host of environmental and social problems of its own. Sugarcane fields were traditionally burned just before harvest, in order to remove the leaves, kill any snakes and fertilize the fields with ash. The smoke produced each season produces the same amount of carbon polution as the sugarcane would have produced if it were left in the field to rot, which is relatively little. However, the smoke greatly impacts the sugarcane-growing parts of the country, turning the sky gray and air hazardous throughout the harvesting season. As winds carry the smoke into nearby towns, air pollution goes critical and respiratory problems soar. This practice has been decreasing of late, due to pressure from the public and health authorities." 
2. "Since sugarcane only requires hand labor at harvest time, this shift also created a large population of destitute migrant workers who can only find temporary employment as cane cutters (at about US$3 to 5 per day) for one or two months every year. This huge social problem has contributed to political unrest and violence in rural areas, which are now plagued by recurrent farm invasions, vandalism, armed confrontations, and assassinations." 
Wow!! We should sign up for this government program tomorrow. Maybe we could pay the Brazillian government billions as consultants.
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2006 H2 & 2008 H3 Alpha
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