RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (Full Version)

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RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info

  

HummerGuy -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 7:58:01 AM)

It's kinda like that theory they teach you in school that says what comes in must go out, or, any kind of energy you produce has some kind of other effect down the line.   That's some very interesting stuff.  So in esense or theory you could be actually making our Ozone layer deplete more by using Ethanol then using normal Gasoline?

The economics I understand completely.  I actually wrote a post about this earlier in the year, about how farmers around my area have been taking their farms off the market and more E85 pumps are popping up.

From reading all of this info and hearing everybody's comments, it's starting to seem like we really aren't going to know what is best right now as you say.  There seems to be alot of mixed opinions and information coming out, but I care more about statistics and facts then I do about what people's personal opinions are.

When you post information as you did, comparing the economic factors to the environmental ones, it kinda puts things in persepctive for me a bit, which is kinda making it look more pointless to me at this time.

Thanks for that information!  I can't wait to see what more people have to say about it.


  
Steve #1 -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 11:35:39 AM)

Camou2 covered it pretty well.

E85 has been made to look good on paper.  It's making corn farmers happy, it's making the business men that made investments in refining happy, it makes the politicians happy, it makes some of the greenies happy, and it makes the soccermoms driving there Tahoes happy because they think they are saving the planet.

I could go on and on.... but I won't, there's tons of information out there for both sides of the argument.  Take note of the source of the information before you put any stock in it.

BTW: As much as I'm against E85, it's trickall down effect is good for my family's soy bean farm. [;)]




HummerGuy -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 11:50:55 AM)

Well like I said, I really appreciate you guys getting into the topic and providing your feedback.  If anything good comes out of it, it will be that a few of us are more educated about it.  I'm sure we aren't the only ones reading this thread, so people will at least get a broader perspective of the big picture.

I guess it is a never-ending topic.  It seems there are more negative impacts then positive one.

Doc Olds -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 12:29:39 PM)

You know I was watching this show the other day about alternative fuel.  They were talking about another interesting aspest of E85 production, being the various crops from which the ETOH can be grown from.  Corn was about the least efficient because they said for every one unit of fossil fuel (gas/deisel etc.) to plant, cultivate, harvest, haul and produce the ETOH from corn, they only get 1.4 units of  ETOH back out.  They predict that when they figure out to use switchgrass to produce ETOH it will yield 4 units of ETOH per unit of fossil fuel???  The switchgrass stuff isn't even figured out yet so it is just based on predtictions from aggricultural eggheads.  They also talked about units of ETOH per acre, corn was very weak.   It was all news to me and clearly shows there is no simple answer yet. 

SpeedNut -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 12:39:58 PM)

I still think the answer was already shown to us in Back to the Future 2.  Mr. Fusion is the way to go [:D]

Steve #1 -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 1:15:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc Olds

You know I was watching this show the other day about alternative fuel.  They were talking about another interesting aspest of E85 production, being the various crops from which the ETOH can be grown from.  Corn was about the least efficient because they said for every one unit of fossil fuel (gas/deisel etc.) to plant, cultivate, harvest, haul and produce the ETOH from corn, they only get 1.4 units of  ETOH back out.  They predict that when they figure out to use switchgrass to produce ETOH it will yield 4 units of ETOH per unit of fossil fuel???  The switchgrass stuff isn't even figured out yet so it is just based on predtictions from aggricultural eggheads.  They also talked about units of ETOH per acre, corn was very weak.   It was all news to me and clearly shows there is no simple answer yet. 


Brazil uses a lot of ethanol.  As I recall, their regular gas is blended 25% with ethanol with 40% of there fuel being primarily ethanol (think E85 but it is more than 85%).  Why does it work so well in Brazil?  They use sugar cane which is much more efficient than corn.

Camou2 -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (11/15/2007 7:51:35 PM)

Steve, what you say about Brazil is correct but that is not the whole story.  Brazil started subsidizing sugar cane ethanol production probably 30 years ago to help their starving farmers and because they could not really afford to be competitive in the open market for oil in that period of their history.  So, for years both the price of ethanol was government regulated and the farming of source products i.e. sugar cane and baggass was subsidized.  So, what did that get them today? 

1.  "The ethanol program was not perfect and brought a host of environmental and social problems of its own. Sugarcane fields were traditionally burned just before harvest, in order to remove the leaves, kill any snakes and fertilize the fields with ash. The smoke produced each season produces the same amount of carbon polution as the sugarcane would have produced if it were left in the field to rot, which is relatively little. However, the smoke greatly impacts the sugarcane-growing parts of the country, turning the sky gray and air hazardous throughout the harvesting season. As winds carry the smoke into nearby towns, air pollution goes critical and respiratory problems soar. This practice has been decreasing of late, due to pressure from the public and health authorities." [image]http://www.hummerforums.com/image/s5.gif[/image]

2.  "Since sugarcane only requires hand labor at harvest time, this shift also created a large population of destitute migrant workers who can only find temporary employment as cane cutters (at about US$3 to 5 per day) for one or two months every year. This huge social problem has contributed to political unrest and violence in rural areas, which are now plagued by recurrent farm invasions, vandalism, armed confrontations, and assassinations." [image]http://www.hummerforums.com/image/s8.gif[/image]

Wow!!  We should sign up for this government program tomorrow.  Maybe we could pay the Brazillian government billions as consultants.

geeggee -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (2/5/2008 3:23:41 PM)

I see lawn mowers cutting grass at tax payer's expense along highways and other public lands nationwide.  As tax payers we get nothing back except the beautification of these public lands.  The public works people grab a pay check...well earned.

It seem logical that we could easily be planting switch grass for use to create ethanol.  Switch grass is better than corn and sugar cane as an added benefit.  Planting switch grass would be like having an insurance policy...maybe it's worth pursuing.

quote:

Test plots of switchgrass at Auburn University have produced up to 15 tons of dry biomass per acre, and five- year yields average 11.5 tons—enough to make 1,150 gallons of ethanol per acre each year. 


Source:
http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/switgrs.html

geeggee -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (2/28/2008 2:02:34 PM)

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=117

$424.00 for H3 flex fuel conversion looks good...even if it's a waste of money it's not that big of a waste.

I see oil topped $102 per barrel today...a petro company in Nigeria got attacked today...a Texas oil refinery caught fire a week ago...and gold topped at $975 an ounce.  Who knows what's up?  But flex fuel just helps to keep more options on the table.

So HummerGuy...is this a dead issue for you or is it still in consideration?

If the octane is rated at 105 then it should be a serious consideration for H2 and H1 owners...for us H3 using regular it's less of an incentive.

HummerGuy -> RE: Hummer H2/H3 E85 Flex Fuel upgrade/conversion kits Info (6/4/2008 11:12:00 AM)

IF E85 ever goes down more then 50 to 75 cents less then regular, I'll still buy this kit.  Doing the math, spending $430 to save .50 a gallon, I wouldn't start saving money and re-cupe my costs until I got past my first 860 gallons of fuel.  This would take me approx. 1 1/2 years before I started to benefit from having it.  By then I'll probably have a second car and my Hummer may not even be around anymore.  Who knows. 

I'll wait for E85 to get cheaper before I do the kit.  If it does for some miraculous reason, I'll suck it up and buy it.

  

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