what is happening??? - Page 3

Jmm - Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am glad you are enjoying your H3 in Europe. I remember being in Paris as a teenager in the 80's and being so proud looking out the back of my tour bus to see a Mustang GT and giving him the thumbs up!
 
I believe we are actually in agreement on most points, the main point being that poor management decisions of American car companies has led to their poor position of massive losses and the resulting layoffs that have and will continue to occur. The fact is that they (GM, Ford and Chrysler) ALLOWED their market share to be TAKEN by foreign competitors by being ignorant to American (and global) consumer wants and needs. And I disagree that it was started by the luxury brands. 2 of the most powerful car companies that have significantly taken American customers away are Volkswagen and Toyota. They focused on fundamentals such as offering value (which is higher content, design and quality - for the same price, as I mentioned) by listening to consumer research and giving the American people what they wanted (more airbags, more storage, cargo/seating flexibility - doesn't this sound like the responses to Vader's thread "What would you change"? ). American companies seemed to barely take notice of these trends in the industry and remained 1-2 steps behind with every new generation of vehicles. The only thing they kept dominance of was their most profitable segment - trucks and SUVs (essentially the same platforms). And now look at what Toyota is doing with the new Tundra...
 
My bottom line is that American car company management, that is the boards of directors and major stockholders, allowed top management to keep their heads in the sand while every other car company in the world raised their games to the next level. Bob Eaton, former CEO of Chrysler, is a modern-day Benedict Arnold (a famous American traitor) due to how he LIED to American workers and stockholders about the so-called "merger of equals" that was in reality the TAKEOVER of Chrysler by Daimler-Benz - for his own $200+ million dollar cash-out (and they prosecuted Enron executives but not this guy). Now Daimler has ditched Chrysler into the hands of a US private equity firm that is known for cutting up under-performing companies to make money. We can only hope for the best now for Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep (I LOVE Jeep - I almost bought a Grand Cherokee SRT8 before being sold on the 2007 H3).
 
Look at the Koreans - Kia is now the fastest growing dealership in the USA and sister-company Hyundai has new products that actually are beating LEXUS in comparison tests???? Even THEY have improved so much in the last 10 years that it makes GM and Ford look positively FOOLISH for not making at least half of the same progress. And regarding your comment that product development was focused on American domestic wants and needs? The bright spot that GM focuses all the media attention on now is the turnaround of the dowdy Saturn brand - which IS truly amazing. But the fact remains it is BASED on cars and platforms designed by their EUROPEAN brand - OPEL! Talk about admitting that help is seriously needed!
 
I hope the rest of you are getting that why I am so pissed about this is because I am AMERICAN and UPSET that we are losing in the industry that we STARTED. I'm all for supporting American interests but we have to be honest, realistic and push ourselves (read: let corporate management know) to be as good if not better than our competitors. Blindly supporting bad decisions is what led American car companies to this position in the first place, and America voting with their wallets - and Wall Street responding accordingly - is what finally caused them to take notice.
 
I'm as patriotic or more so than the next guy for sure. Hell, I work for Smith & Wesson - IMHO there is nothing more patriotic tha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jmm

Oh and BTW ''saint Merde'' is not the right ''word'' you should write:
''bordel de merde''

 
I forgot to say merci for the correction - I'll have to remember that for the future!
 
Jeff

I remember when Smith & Wesson was bought by the europeans.  The NRA members banned them for sleeping with the anti-gun establishment.  Thank God they're back in the American fold.
 
Yep, I'm a NRA member.  I did compromise on my gun selections. A Smith & Wesson and Beretta.

Yes, those were dark days. I wish I had had the foresight to buy more stock back when it was less than $2.00!
 
Thanks for supporting us. Beretta's are fine, they've served our troops well - despite the "horror" stories floating around the Internet. I figure an NRA member can buy any gun they want - support is support, and we need all we can get with the looming elections. Time to weather yet another liberal storm!
 
OMG - I'm starting on another rant - I guess I'll quit while I'm ahead.
 
Jeff
 

While I consider myself a semi-conservative PATRIOTIC AMERICAN (Yes, I'm proud to be an American - thank you Lee Greenwood!) - I couldn't agree more with most of the valid points that you have made here jng. Facts are facts...and over the years myself/our families have had the broad spectrum of vehicle makes and models. Some were puchased based on reliability and others purchased based on status symbol/popularity or design look only.  
 
The bottom line is the American made products we have owned have spent far more time in the shop and had less features than the "foreign made" vehicles (YES, there are bad lemons in every bunch from time to time) And we don't hold ourselves to the same production standards as they do as well as our CEO's have lined their pockets from greed and mismanagement.
 
This being said, I LOVE my AMERICAN MADE Hummer despite it's having been in the shop 8 times thus far during my 1st year of ownership (AND the garbage GM put me thru over the last 8 months) and I would buy her all over again!   I would also not try to dissuade anyone from purchasing one. I would however say do your homework and be fully aware of what you are buying (as with any vehicle) so that there are no surprises!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LawWyfe

This being said, I LOVE my AMERICAN MADE Hummer despite it's having been in the shop 8 times thus far during my 1st year of ownership (AND the garbage GM put me thru over the last 8 months) and I would buy her all over again!   I would also not try to dissuade anyone from purchasing one.

Now THAT is saying something. I've read your saga and I'm glad it finally ended up well. I would definitely hope that it is a non-typical experience but GM did set a precedent for future claims by taking care of you and you sharing this with all of us. My local Hummer dealer has been great thus far and unusual in that they install aftermarket performance parts not made by GM (K&N FIPK and other things). I know what Dennis says about the Magnusson-Moss Act but in my experience most dealers don't subscribe to that in the hopes you'll go away should something happen. For my GM dealer to openly invite modifications speaks volumes about them and does reinforce the warm and fuzzy I get about owning my H3.

Jeff

quote:

ORIGINAL: jng1226

Jmm - Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am glad you are enjoying your H3 in Europe. I remember being in Paris as a teenager in the 80's and being so proud looking out the back of my tour bus to see a Mustang GT and giving him the thumbs up!

I believe we are actually in agreement on most points, the main point being that poor management decisions of American car companies has led to their poor position of massive losses and the resulting layoffs that have and will continue to occur. The fact is that they (GM, Ford and Chrysler) ALLOWED their market share to be TAKEN by foreign competitors by being ignorant to American (and global) consumer wants and needs. And I disagree that it was started by the luxury brands. 2 of the most powerful car companies that have significantly taken American customers away are Volkswagen and Toyota. They focused on fundamentals such as offering value (which is higher content, design and quality - for the same price, as I mentioned) by listening to consumer research and giving the American people what they wanted (more airbags, more storage, cargo/seating flexibility - doesn't this sound like the responses to Vader's thread "What would you change"? ). American companies seemed to barely take notice of these trends in the industry and remained 1-2 steps behind with every new generation of vehicles. The only thing they kept dominance of was their most profitable segment - trucks and SUVs (essentially the same platforms). And now look at what Toyota is doing with the new Tundra...

My bottom line is that American car company management, that is the boards of directors and major stockholders, allowed top management to keep their heads in the sand while every other car company in the world raised their games to the next level. Bob Eaton, former CEO of Chrysler, is a modern-day Benedict Arnold (a famous American traitor) due to how he LIED to American workers and stockholders about the so-called "merger of equals" that was in reality the TAKEOVER of Chrysler by Daimler-Benz - for his own $200+ million dollar cash-out (and they prosecuted Enron executives but not this guy). Now Daimler has ditched Chrysler into the hands of a US private equity firm that is known for cutting up under-performing companies to make money. We can only hope for the best now for Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep (I LOVE Jeep - I almost bought a Grand Cherokee SRT8 before being sold on the 2007 H3).

Look at the Koreans - Kia is now the fastest growing dealership in the USA and sister-company Hyundai has new products that actually are beating LEXUS in comparison tests???? Even THEY have improved so much in the last 10 years that it makes GM and Ford look positively FOOLISH for not making at least half of the same progress. And regarding your comment that product development was focused on American domestic wants and needs? The bright spot that GM focuses all the media attention on now is the turnaround of the dowdy Saturn brand - which IS truly amazing. But the fact remains it is BASED on cars and platforms designed by their EUROPEAN brand - OPEL! Talk about admitting that help is seriously needed!

I hope the rest of you are getting that why I am so pissed about this is because I am AMERICAN and UPSET that we are losing in the industry that we STARTED. I'm all for supporting American interests but we have to be honest, realistic and push ourselves (read: let corporate management know) to be as good if not better than our competitors. Blindly supporting bad decisions is what led American car companies to this position in the first place, and America voting with their wallets - and Wall Street responding accordingly - is what finally caused them to take notice.

I'm as patriotic or more so than the next guy for sure. Hell, I work for Smith & Wesson - IMHO there is nothing more pat

I love imports and american cars! That's why I have both!

Dennis _ I believe the negative post should always be removed first as that will not spark  as much as when you remove the + first and possibily ignite the H2 (the hygrogen (sp?).  Same reason when you jump start  a vehicle the last step is connecting to a frame part for no spark near batt.

Jean, my friend.  I read your entire post since you have been so kind and polite to read my books over the past months

I have to ask ONE question though to everybody;

Why hasn't anybody brought up the rediculous hold the Unions have on the American car companies?  Toyota plants here in the U.S. are non-unioinized, and that is why they can sell MORE for LESS.  As someone here told me not too long ago, that he knows a guy making $40+ an hour just to check the door panels on pickup trucks when they come off the assembly line, something tells me this just isn't right.

I am ALL for Unions and sticking up for the little guy, but I think it's getting out of control....

And then the American people all scratch their heads wondering why all of these plants are closing.  It's right in front of you. 

I have a very good friend who was a production manager at a Ford plant in my area.  His plant was on the verge of closing.  He told me the #1 reason was because the Union was demanding too much from Ford for the workers, when they were getting paid above and beyond what other car manufacturer's paid their workers, and that ultimately was the demise of that production line.  He got out before it was shut down. 

What I'm saying is not all fabricated information, but unfortunately it is the truth.  Again, I support Unionized workers, but it's getting out of hand with the demands they set forth on the American auto industry.   Just remember, there is a reason why the overseas car companies that manufacture cars here in the U.S. can give us much more for less, and it's because they don't have to pay the workers $40 an hour to make sure the the light bulb works in the glove compartment.

Jean, I think my long posts are catching on to you.  I'm sorry I did this to you my friend

And in case you guys haven't heard yet, GM is opening a new plant in South America to manufacture the H3 and introduce it to that market.  Hm.  I wonder why THAT is.   It's only a matter of time before you start seeing our own product imported from another country IMO.  Here is a link to an article about it from just last week:
 
http://www.publiceye.co.ls/print.asp?id=486

totally agree with you, HummerGuy.  in fact, I give unions less credit than you do.  in my eyes, they are nothing except a way for employees to bully around their employers these days.  anyone who's been on the management side of things knows what a royal nightmare it is to deal with them and their constant threats.
 
it's interesting to note to toyota only recently surpassed GM in volume of sales, but has been making much more profit for several years now.  anyone think that might have something to do with...........operating costs? 0.o
 
unions are pretty ridiculous nowadays.  I know some people whose jobs are to aim the cameras in some of the tunnels for the big dig.  they do somewhere around 30 minutes of actual work a day, but still get paid 8 hours at a rate of $20/hr.