Off Road Obstacle question

Hi All
 
I recently got stuck with my H3 when going though a ditch that was full of Mud
The back wheels got stuck in the Mud and would just turn and the front wheels could not pull me up to the top of the ditch.
 
I was a little dissapointed that my H3 could not get through as some other 4x4's did with the rear diffs locked all 4 wheels would just spin, I do however believe my tyres [Goodyear Wranglers where partialy to blame].
 
What be the recommeded tyre pressure for this type of obstacle?

it would depend on your tire size, but anywhere from 12 to 18 psi seems typical.  the trick with mud is to keep the tires spinning the whole time.  this maintains forward momentum and cleans the mud out of the treads.  tires definitely make a difference, but i have no idea what a goodyear wrangler looks like, so couldn't say if they're good in mud or not.

If you were at full tire pressure that would be a big part of the problem. Lower pressure= a bigger tire footprint. Like Shorty said, in mud you want to keep your momentum up and having a bigger surface for grip helps. Without beadlocks I run 16-18 psi in mud and about the same in deep sand.

If you had the stock Wrangler RT/S, that's a big part of the problem. They have small grooves and hold onto the mud vs. shedding it like a good MT tire. I just got rid of mine a few months ago and I noticed a big difference in offroad handling.

Yep, those tires are part of the stuck problem.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: alrock

If you had the stock Wrangler RT/S, that's a big part of the problem. They have small grooves and hold onto the mud vs. shedding it like a good MT tire. I just got rid of mine a few months ago and I noticed a big difference in offroad handling.

What tire did you go with?  I put off buying the winch bumper until I get new tires.  I'm interested in going up to a 35" tire on the stock rim.  Looking for feedback from other owners.

I think that he is running the same tires as I am. BFG A/T's, NOT the best off road tire but they are a hell of alot better than the stock Wrangler RT/S! A decent compromise tire if you not spending ALL of your time off road IMO. Noticed a big difference just in the mud (haven't been in anything else yet)

I'm a proponent of airing down, but in mud it's not going to make as much difference as it would with sand or climbing ledges etc.
 
There's two camps when it camps to mud.  Wide high flotation tire to ride on top, or a tall narrow tire to cut through the goo and get down to the more solid part.  Which works better depends on the mud.
 
As for the other vehicles making it through.... where they IFS or SFA?  Mud tires or street?  V8 or I4?  Balls to the wall or slow and steady? Long wheelbase or short?  Virgin off roaders or experienced veterans?  There are tons of factors at play.  Personally, I'd rather have my K5 in mud than my H3, even with it's open diffs.
 
Of the 12 or so H3s and H2s that tackled this muddy ditch, I think only 2 or 3 made it through.


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When my lease is up and if I decide to buy it out, I will definitely be changing the tires out. I have the stock wranglers on right now, which are great for normal driving, but even in the snow up here they slip, however a lot better than the stock ones that came with my Jeep. I noticed they do hold a lot of the "whatever" you are going through whether it be snow, mud or dirt.
 
I did look at the Wrangler MTR and the BFG mud t/a tire for my jeep cherokee when I was looking for tires and they looked like a decent tire for on-road AND off-road driving. Some off road trucks I have been in, it feels like you are driving on the moon on the highway with them and the noise is ridiculous.

Bad tires are a huge difference.  Think of an athlete with the wrong shoes, like a track star in heels. The most embarrassing moment of my 4 wheeling life was this picture where it took me four tries to get up the hill. Heck the range below was almost all stock and I think he got up with out even breaking traction.  Bad tires + bad driver = embarassment.   But I can say I leaned more that day with that one little hill than I did the rest of the weekend.  Should have put my other set of tires on, should have listened to the spotter, and  should have not thought that my vehicle was so bad I could do it my way.  And again I know you were dissapointed but everyone that wheels gets stuck and makes mistakes. Get ride of those tires you have as I hated them on a vehicle I did have.   And my opinion is like Steve #1, tire pressure alone may have not been the culprit here.

Once again I repeat, and Impy will back me up on this one.  The lame "traction control" our rides have is NOT a replacement for front lockers!  The E-locker in back is OK but it works only in 4L and at speeds less than 20 MPH which makes it useless in goopy mud holes.  That's where the Rubicon and Dodge Power Wagon have the HUMMER beat hands down.  Front and rear (real) lockers, solid front axle and disconnecting front sway bar...Now that's a real 4x4!  Our HUMMERS are nice off road rigs, better than a Grand Cherokee or a piece of crap YoyTota but they can't compare to rigs with the aforementioned setup.  The new H4 will have a front locker and a cast iron front punkin'.  Well done General Motors, but you should have done this to the H3 a long time ago. 
 
"That's all I have to say 'bout that."  (Forrest Gump)
 
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/roadtests/131_0804_2009_hummer_h3t_review/index.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/locking.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhill20

I think that he is running the same tires as I am. BFG A/T's, NOT the best off road tire but they are a hell of alot better than the stock Wrangler RT/S! A decent compromise tire if you not spending ALL of your time off road IMO. Noticed a big difference just in the mud (haven't been in anything else yet)

rhill is correct, I have the BFG A/Ts. I don't have much mud out here and I chose ride/noise quality and tire wear over Mud Terrain off-road capability. The A/Ts are definitely a compromise but still way better than stock tires. If you are doing mud, and going to 35s, I would really take a look at the new BFG KM2s.

I also compromised on size, doing 295/75-16 vs. 285 or 315s

We don't get much mud here either. Many sand, rock and the occasional chance to get muddy. The MTR is a good all around tire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealJeep

Once again I repeat, and Impy will back me up on this one.  The lame "traction control" our rides have is NOT a replacement for front lockers!  The E-locker in back is OK but it works only in 4L and at speeds less than 20 MPH which makes it useless in goopy mud holes.  That's where the Rubicon and Dodge Power Wagon have the HUMMER beat hands down.  Front and rear (real) lockers, solid front axle and disconnecting front sway bar...Now that's a real 4x4!  Our HUMMERS are nice off road rigs, better than a Grand Cherokee or a piece of crap YoyTota but they can't compare to rigs with the aforementioned setup.  The new H4 will have a front locker and a cast iron front punkin'.  Well done General Motors, but you should have done this to the H3 a long time ago. 

"That's all I have to say 'bout that."  (Forrest Gump)

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/roadtests/131_0804_2009_hummer_h3t_review/index.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/locking.html

amen! i love my hummer, but realjeep pointed out its three weaknesses, traction control, the locker situation, and ifs front end. i love my hummer and they are indeed bada** offroad machines...to some extent

Re-read the post guys.
The GY Wranglers aren't a bad tyre but unless they're Wrangler M/T's then they are not a mud tire. 
He says his rear was spinning and the front would not pull him out.  Traction control sucks and is not a replacement for a locker in the fornt end. 
His friends had lockers and they walked right out of the hole.  Don't think your H3 is a true 4x4 because at best it a 3x4 with a rear locker and I grade that down to a 2-1/2X4 because the locker only works in LR and below 20MPH.  I'm glad GM's listening because the H3T will have a front locker soon!

quote:

ORIGINAL: T REX

Hi All

I recently got stuck with my H3 when going though a ditch that was full of Mud
The back wheels got stuck in the Mud and would just turn and the front wheels could not pull me up to the top of the ditch.

I was a little dissapointed that my H3 could not get through as some other 4x4's did with the rear diffs locked all 4 wheels would just spin, I do however believe my tyres [Goodyear Wranglers where partialy to blame].

What be the recommeded tyre pressure for this type of obstacle?

Real Jeep, while I do agree with you, you're being a bit harsh on the H3.  How many production vehicles are available with OEM front locking differentials?  Wrangle, Power Wagon, Land Cruiser and I'm sure there is a small handful of others.  Add to that that the Wrangler and Power Wagon both have SFA, which are much more sutable for lockers.  Given that, the Land cruiser has had the front locker since the mid 90, but If I'm not mistaken, the Jeep and Dodge have only had 'em for a few years.  It's a relatively new trend and it looks like GM is getting on the bandwagon.
 
Front locking differentials aren't even that prevalent in built 4X4s for a number of reasons like driveability, turning radius, availability, and primarily durability.  Locked front axles have a tendency to have problems with breakage.

My Alpha came with Goodyear Wrangler AT which were like highway tires as far as I was concerned. Those were gone the first week I owned my H3 for BFG/AT 295/75R16 which like rhill said are very good tires and I have owned many sets of them but they are not really very good off road tires. The best tires I have ever owned are the Toyo Open Country Mud Tires 315/75R16. I had 2 sets of them on my Powerstroke and they are great in mud, snow and on the highway but noisy and the best I could ever get out of them was 25,000 miles but that was an 8000# truck.
 
In mud like that I think it’s the tires and momentum that keeps you going. Once you stop you’re done and if you’re in muck and get high centered no matter what you got you’re finished! The only thing you need then is a winch.  Been there, done that!

Back to Realjeeps defense though GM or someone should offer front lockers, fully locked an H3 would dominate MANY vehicles the problem is the parts aren't available unless you custom fabricate them. Where you at ARB and OX? Maybe a Detroit Locker?

Of course I like my H3 or I wouldn't have bought it.  It's the most capable out of the box SUV under $50,000 on the market.  But my case for lockers stands and GM knows it or it wouldn't have put them in the H3T.  These aren't your Dad's lockers (Detroit, etc..) these are Eaton E-Lockers that are not as good as ARB air lockers but nice nonetheless.  All I'm saying is a rig with 4 locked corners, even with A/T tires will excel off road.  You can have TSL/SX swampers (The best tire for mud ever IMHO) and open diffs and still the rig with lockers will win. 
Simply put, here's how they work.  With open diffs, the wheel with most slip gets the most power.  Add "Traction Control" and the computer puts the brakes on the slipping tire to send power to the other side with more traction.  So now you have one wheel with the brake on and the other side trying to get a grip until they equalize power.  Not my idea of a good off road set up and one reason why your H3 turns off Stabilitrak in four low.  Go figure...
 
FOURNEY:  I have no idea why so few manufacturers offer so few off road products for H3's.  If you want bling the catalog is full of them, if you want real off road gear yer outta luck!

I know all too well realjeep. my problem is that i don't want bling so i guess im SOL until parts start being munufactured. My fantasy is a fully locked H3