Need opinion & info

I'm thinking of lifting the front end up to make it more level to the back ...what do you think? and has anyone done it? ....all input is great
              gangstagirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: gangstagirl

I'm thinking of lifting the front end up to make it more level to the back ...what do you think? and has anyone done it? ....all input is great
             gangstagirl

 
I think you can tighten something or other Torsion Bars???  Oh HELL, I dunno
 
Someone will help ya, after all, YOU'RE CANADIAN!!!!

hummbob...I will ask about some bling later ....I know you can answer that for me  
gangstagirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: gangstagirl

hummbob...I will ask about some bling later ....I know you can answer that for me  
gangstagirl

 
When it comes to SHOW....I got ya covered!!
 
When it comes to ACTUAL "MeChAnIcAl" STUFF, that's when I pay the dealership!!

2 ways you can go.  One is to buy the lift  for the torsion bar.  Second is just turning the adjuster bolt for the bar.  I recomend the second, just make sure yo get it aligned when you lift it.   There are alot of threads on this for the H3.  It's the same thing with the H2

Hey blackstang .. have you turned yours up!?  If so, how many turns to get her level!?  Seriously considering it myself .. is there a trade off in ride quality? 
 
 

if you only want to even out the stance, i'd recommend you stick with the stock keys and turn them yourself.  the number of turns will depend on the stiffness of the torsion bars, i've never seen a case where equal turns on each side does the trick. 
 
although not necessary, i'd recommend lifting the front tire off the ground prior to turning the adjuster bolt.  before you start, take a measurement from the top of the tire to the bottom of the fender, or from the ground to the bottom of the fender, this will give you a reference for comparison.  i've got a pic somewhere of the adjustment point, but if you follow the torsion bar back tot he center of the truck, you should find it pretty easily.  the stock keys should level out your stance and make you a bit more level without adding additional stress to any of the stock components.   whatever you do, whether you stay with stock keys or go with aftermarkets, get an alignment after you make the adjustments and drive around 50-100 miles.  you may not feel a difference, but the alignment will be off, since you're adjustment is pushing the bottom of the tire inward. overall, it's a very easy change and does make the truck look better from a distance.

I would leave it stock, just the way the engineers design it to be. I'm not an expert on this, but my theory would be that doing this raise will give you a stiffer front suspension, and affect the aerodynamics of your truck, especialy at highway cruising speeds. Think of it like when you stick your arm out the window, tilting you hand up and down the wind would force it up and down, much like the wing of an airplane where the air flow travels much faster below it than it does above it creating lift, I'd think same would apply for your vehicle since HUMMER's are high off the ground, and having a large volume of air below it. So if you raise the front end, the down force on your front wheels will be lessened, and if you ever drive through a large body of water or black ice, you may risk hydroplaning and or skidding out of control much easier, or worst yet... rolling your truck!!!
It's just my Theory and i could be totaly wrong on this, but it seems to make sense to me on the reason why HUMMER's have a slight forward tilt to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZYNE

Hey blackstang .. have you turned yours up!?  If so, how many turns to get her level!?  Seriously considering it myself .. is there a trade off in ride quality? 

 
I turned them a while ago just to see what it would look like ( I think 3 1/2 and 4 turns). I drove it a few miles and it did not seem any different to me.  However I could not make an app to align quick enough so I took it back to stock.  I haven't touched it since. This summer I'll do it for good.

I knew someone would come to gangstagirl's aid!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: HumRluvR

I would leave it stock, just the way the engineers design it to be. I'm not an expert on this, but my theory would be that doing this raise will give you a stiffer front suspension, and affect the aerodynamics of your truck, especialy at highway cruising speeds. Think of it like when you stick your arm out the window, tilting you hand up and down the wind would force it up and down, much like the wing of an airplane where the air flow travels much faster below it than it does above it creating lift, I'd think same would apply for your vehicle since HUMMER's are high off the ground, and having a large volume of air below it. So if you raise the front end, the down force on your front wheels will be lessened, and if you ever drive through a large body of water or black ice, you may risk hydroplaning and or skidding out of control much easier, or worst yet... rolling your truck!!!
It's just my Theory and i could be totaly wrong on this, but it seems to make sense to me on the reason why HUMMER's have a slight forward tilt to them.

 
actually, by cranking the torsion bars, you're putting more downward pressure on the front tires, not less.  there may be some change in aerodynamics, but a rolling brick is still a rolling brick, and any change would be imperceptible.  black ice is black ice, and nothing short of studded tires or chains will improve the traction on that.  there isn't enough of a change in body height to increase the risk of rolling it.  the biggest difference SOME people have noticed is the stiffer ride, but i didn't notice any change.  i also changed the front shocks at the same time, so if i did notice a change, i would have attributed it to that.
 
the engineers designed an adjustment in them just for this reason, and the truck is designed to operate within the total range of adjustment, so it should handle just as well from one extreme to the other. 

How do you figure that by raising your front suspension will increase pressure of your front tires to ground? Won't happen unless you add more weight to the vehicle right? A 8000lb truck is a 8000lb truck!!! All your basicly doing is raising the front body by increasing spring stiffness, and more pressure is applied to the lower control arm and not to the ground. What i'm trying to explain here is the down force thats created from traveling at highway speeds, and by decreasing the forward slope of your truck will decrease this down force as well by having more air traveling under the truck creating this lift i was mentioning, doing this will reduce vehicle weight on the front end where you'd need it most at high speeds, keeping your front tires planted to the ground!!!
The only know solid mass to man that won't create this lift is a perfect sphere, even a brick will have lift at 70mph.
 
AMG and GM engineers have set very tight tolerences on their vehicles, especialy front suspension components including ride hight specs. just because you have extra threads on your torsion arms adjusters doesn't mean you can crank it beyond set factory specs just for looks. If these engineers wanted to truck to sit level... I'd think that it would of came out the facory that way!!!
 
Again... just my theory

Umm .. the amount of lift that could possibly generate would require me to drive somewhere around mach 1 in order to generate enough lift to get that truck in a bad spot .. LOL!  I dunno about you but the 6L V8 I got in my H2 takes about 2 days to hit 90 mph LOL!
 
Let's just face the bitter facts here, these trucks would hit it's aerodynamic barrier long before enough lift is generated to where it could become an issue. 
 
And I should probably mention I did this to my -03 Avalanche before I opted for the street truck look and dropped it instead.  As long as you have an alignment done there should be no issues .. this out of the mouth of the guys at the Chevy service shop I used to go to ..
 
Also, just because a vehicle comes a certain way from factory doesn't mean it's necessarily the "right" way to everyone .. Hell, look at the leanin' H3's .. I'm sure they would argue that look is correct .. crank them torsion bars boys

 

more pressure is being applied to the lower control arm, which is connected to the tire, meaning more downward pressure to the tire.  but i understand your point, i just don't agree with the possible results.  and that's cool.  i've had mine cranked for over a year and have yet to get airborn, but i don't drive over 80.

LOL.... I can just see GangstaGirl Laughing her azz off at us with this debate!!!
Look Guys... I'm Not here to cause a heated argument over this, i think you guys and this forum are great, the best HUMMER forum out there!!!! It's just that i majored in physics in High School (Many Many years ago), and i have a good knowledge on this theory, and i was also a Machanic for a few years aswell before becoming a Welder.
 
Shortbus... I still don't comprehend on how you figure that more weight is applied between tire and ground surface bro!! Increased pressure (tension) is applied within the torsion arm itself, which is connected to the lower control arm at one end, and fixed to the frame at the other end causing the body to lift away from the front suspension, by turning the adjusters tighter. The only time that the tire to suface pressure is increased by adding more tension to torsion arms, is when you roll over a bump, due to the increased resistance in wheel travel.
 
As for the aerodynamic lift... I'm not saying that you'll flip your HUMMER backwards at high speeds. LMAO I'm just trying to explain that reducing downward force will take away a certain amount of surface pressure from the front tires to ground at higher speeds. Even if it's just 50lb reduction at each front tire, i know personaly i'd would want as much downward force as possible when i'm cruising on the highway when the roads have ice or large water puddles on them, reducing that possible risk of loss of traction.

i think you called it right to start with, it's a debate, maybe, not a heated argument.  i didn't major in physics, nor was i a mechanic, but i'll stick with my opinion.
 
however, since you did major in physics, i have something i'd like your help with.  we had a warn 9500 winch (mounted to the bus), connected to a snatch block on a pull pal, from there to a 9000 lb H1, with a snatch block and routed back to the pull pal.  we were trying to pull the H1 sideways, on ice, to get the back wheel back up on the road.  we ended up snapping the 14000 lb pull pal. we had about one layer of cable on the winch.  how much force were we applying to the pull pal?

Hmmmm... I'm having a hard time drawing a mental picture on how both vehicles where positioned to each other, the angles, and the amount of friction involved to give you an accurate number. But i would say well over 14000 lbs of force was involved in your pull on that poor Pull Pal... LOL If you would of rigged this pull differently, Much of the stresses would of applied only to the block on the H1 And not on the Pull Pal!!! You Should of ran your cable from your winch to the block on the H1, then to the Pull Pal, and back to the H1. this way much less energy is needed from your winch, a greater reduction in stress on the Pull Pal, and most of the force would be applied on the block attatched to the H1!!!!
 
Let's examine your way of rigging, providing that the cable angles are within 30 degrees from your winch to the Pull Pal pulling 9000 lbs H1 with very little friction.
About 4500 lbs of energy is needed from your winch, 13,500 lbs of stress on that poor Pull Pal, and 9000 lbs of load on the block to the H1.
If you would of rigged it like i mentioned above..
Only 3000 lbs of energy is needed from your winch, 6000 lbs of stress on the Pull Pal, and 9000 lbs of load on the H1.
So now i think you get a pretty good idea on what happen to that poor ol Pull Pal...
 

gangstagirl, go GANGSTA and LOWER that bad boy!!!

I see your point HumRluvR but I don't agree with it .. first of all if the road conditions were bad to the point where this would actually play in I'd either A) stay my ass at home or B) take it niiiiiiiice and eeeeeeeaaaaaaasy ... and if you hit ice, having em cranked up or not isn't going to be a factor .. it's the same slippery stuff regardless of ride height and the weight ain't gunna change either :-)
 
It doesn't take much to send a truck or car sliding out of control hitting ice ... I was doing less than 20 mph on a straight road when I hit a patch of black ice in my old Avalanche... I went sliding sideways in to oncoming traffic (2 lane road) before the truck launched over a 2 foot ditch/drop and took out a "stop light ahead" sign AND pole .. in mid flight at that.  Coming to rest in the ditch on the opposite side of the road in the direction of traffic ... 180 degree, flight, pole/sign ...
Now if we assume we hit that same patch of ice doing 40 mph, or even at some idiot/dumba$$/waterhead speed of 70 mph in the same bad conditions ... do you honestly think the torsion bars being cranked will have ANY impact at all, negative or positive!?!?!!  Even at 70 mph the amount of lift generated by a more or less square object is miniscule ..
 
 

wish i know how to draw a picture in the reply box.  we figured we had more than 14k lbs, or the pull pal was defective.  we did manage to move the H1 about 2 inches sideways before the whole thing went TU

thanks guys for your info.... , i do like the look of it with the front up more level with the back ....but i'm still not sure....          thanks again     gangstagirl  
 

i have a 2000 z71 w/the t-bars turned up
and  has been that way  for 140k+ and have  yet to have a problem
it has add-a-leafs in the rear and the t-bars turned to fit the 33's
summer look

winter look

ok so let me get this right most of you are saying by turning the tbars up it will make my front end sit alittle higher more level with the back end .....when looking at the hummer does the front seem alittle lower to you guys to....or is thisjust me seeing it this way    thanks agian guys
               gangstagirl

Yep, it has a bit of a nose down look to it from factory I think .. Cranking em will force the front end up X amount based on how many turns on the t-bars. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: gangstagirl

ok so let me get this right most of you are saying by turning the tbars up it will make my front end sit alittle higher more level with the back end .....when looking at the hummer does the front seem alittle lower to you guys to....or is thisjust me seeing it this way    thanks agian guys
              gangstagirl

 
Yeah gangsta, they kinda nose down a bit, but I like the way it looks!!! Kinda MEAN!!!