Leveling kit VS. Torsion bar adjustment

Is there a difference between getting a leveling kit and just cranking up the Torsion Bars? Pros/Cons of each??? I want my H3 LEVEL!!!!

Thankya veddy mucha!

you should be able to level it with the torsion bars. the kit is a pair of offset adjuster keys that replace the ones you've got. i wouldn't recommend the kit, they will change the overall geometry of the vehicle beyond the manufacturers design. but, others have done the kit and don't appear to have issues yet.

Thanks for the info. Also whats the concensus on getting an alignment done after cranking the torsion bars? I have heard a few people say that they put them on the rack but didn't bother adjusting anything because there was no noticeable change. Others say to get one or else...

I twisted mine 2.5 turns, the seamingly recommended amount, and didn't bother with an alignment because others have said no alignment is needed. the way I look at it, I marked the bolts before turning them, so if I notice funky wear on the tires, I'll just go back to stock. The only problem I see with cranking the bars to the point of having it sit totally level with the rear is on compression you run the risk of over flexing the spring and snapping it. (think of pulling too far on a rubber band) You can remidy this by moving your bump stops to return the travel to more of a stock movement, but now you are limiting your upward travel after you have just comprimised your downward travel by converting it to lift. In my opinion, I would recommend a well thought out and designed kit if you want it to be complety level.

I did it i do it again in a heartbeat it makes the truck.

i think with either method, an alignment would be a good idea. they're your tires, but uneven wear isn't the only issue. the bottoms of your tires are now being forced inward, they're not hitting the pavement flat anymore (after the change). that's going to affect handling, and wear on the inner parts. the handling you might not notice, and the wear may not be a problem until you sell it. but, if it looks good. . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: shortbus

i think with either method, an alignment would be a good idea. they're your tires, but uneven wear isn't the only issue. the bottoms of your tires are now being forced inward, they're not hitting the pavement flat anymore (after the change). that's going to affect handling, and wear on the inner parts. the handling you might not notice, and the wear may not be a problem until you sell it. but, if it looks good. . . .

Makes sense...It's bound to put a tilt of some kind on them..what is the term for when the outside top is tilted out and the outside bottom is riding on that outside edge?..Caster or Camber?..I never can keep those straight.

I JUST HAD MY ALIGNMENT AGAIN AND THE TIRE ARE NICE AND FLUSH WITH THE GROUND NO WEAR ON THEM JUST ROTATED THEM TO.IF YOU GO TO A GOOD PLACE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND HAVE THE BEST EQUPIMENT.IT RIDES NICE

I did turn my torsion bar and it raised it 2 inches and it is level. it rides great.( SEE PHOTOS UNDER HOOD HANDLES ) I did get a alignment . Whats 99.00 to make sure the tires wont wear bad and cup out. let me tell you i got the computer read out before and after i had it aligned. it did change it after turning the torsion alot the machine doesnt lie. it is now back in factory specs .Its worth the money to get a alingment them to buy new tires. i am putting the 315 75 16 or the 315 70 17 in 2 weeks. i didnt want to take a chance with new tires and riun them so i spent the low cost of a aligment.just because it feels good doesnt mean the camber is ok or the tow. if you turn it put it on a machine and get a read out you will see what it reads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dennis

quote:

ORIGINAL: shortbus

i think with either method, an alignment would be a good idea. they're your tires, but uneven wear isn't the only issue. the bottoms of your tires are now being forced inward, they're not hitting the pavement flat anymore (after the change). that's going to affect handling, and wear on the inner parts. the handling you might not notice, and the wear may not be a problem until you sell it. but, if it looks good. . . .

Makes sense...It's bound to put a tilt of some kind on them..what is the term for when the outside top is tilted out and the outside bottom is riding on that outside edge?..Caster or Camber?..I never can keep those straight.
[/quote]


ANSWER: Positive camber.

Nascar 17,
Do you have any photos after lifting your front 2"?
Joe

well, I'm not nascar but that thread was back in april and I'm not even sure he still posts here...so here ya go, this is after a 2" raise by turning the t-bars.

That looks awesome! Thinking of doing it to my H2, but keep hearing negative crap about it. How do you like your ride, etc. Any problems?

there is no negative. If you go nuts on the amount of turns then you may have a harsher ride, other than that nothing else negative. You can even get your local dealer to do it so obviously GM meant them to be turned I have had other trucks with them cranked for many many years and never had anything fail prematurely. Do a search under my name and tortion bar as the subject, I posted an article from a t-bar manufacturer that covered the entire thing in depth, good read if you can find it.

I have a question on turning the torsion bars? Why don't they come from the factory turned up?

I know that a torsion bar adjustment is meant to be adjusted when the front end starts to sag after a few years of use and that is why there is adjustment. To adjust more than normal Factory specs to me is asking for problems later. Just my .02.

Remember its a truck. When you tow or haul something the rear comes down. Now you have a level ride.

I don't tow or haul anything with my H2. I have a 1 ton dually for that! That's why I want it to sit level all the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: H3_Hummer

I have a question on turning the torsion bars? Why don't they come from the factory turned up?

I know that a torsion bar adjustment is meant to be adjusted when the front end starts to sag after a few years of use and that is why there is adjustment. To adjust more than normal Factory specs to me is asking for problems later. Just my .02.

I'm in your camp regarding this. There is too much "torsion" that is being applied to the bars when they are all cranked up. For me, the Truxxx (or similar) was the only option. Ride, handling, etc all remain exactly like factory set up....but now I'm level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: H3_Hummer

I have a question on turning the torsion bars? Why don't they come from the factory turned up?

I know that a torsion bar adjustment is meant to be adjusted when the front end starts to sag after a few years of use and that is why there is adjustment. To adjust more than normal Factory specs to me is asking for problems later. Just my .02.

There are alot of options as to why you would normally need to adj the tortion, which is why gm sets them low to allow for room as individual situations dictate. For one, if you have a push bar and a big azz winch up front, more than likely your front end is going to dip lower than a stock base model with no hardware hanging off the front end, so you will have to adj. up in order to compansate. Actually the re-adjusted keys change the stock geometry by lowering the position of the bar, wher as cranking them retain the stock location. Basically turning the t-bar is like putting a bigger rubber spacer in a solid axle spring to achieve lift. Remember guys, the t-bar is nothing more than a spring tube (lack of a better term) if you stay under 6 cranks or so you will not make the ride any harsher at all and if you go 6 cranks plus then you'll need to replace the bumpstops with a ultra thin model to allow more flex. You could also change the stock t-bars for ones that are stiffer and achieve lift that way as well....just cause your changing GM's stock setting means nothing in regards to running into trouble later...if adjusting them was a bad thing dealerships wouldn't do it and GM would of designed it with no adj in them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: importkiller



There are alot of options as to why you would normally need to adj the tortion, which is why gm sets them low to allow for room as individual situations dictate. For one, if you have a push bar and a big azz winch up front, more than likely your front end is going to dip lower than a stock base model with no hardware hanging off the front end, so you will have to adj. up in order to compansate. Actually the re-adjusted keys change the stock geometry by lowering the position of the bar, wher as cranking them retain the stock location. Basically turning the t-bar is like putting a bigger rubber spacer in a solid axle spring to achieve lift. Remember guys, the t-bar is nothing more than a spring tube (lack of a better term) if you stay under 6 cranks or so you will not make the ride any harsher at all and if you go 6 cranks plus then you'll need to replace the bumpstops with a ultra thin model to allow more flex. You could also change the stock t-bars for ones that are stiffer and achieve lift that way as well....just cause your changing GM's stock setting means nothing in regards to running into trouble later...if adjusting them was a bad thing dealerships wouldn't do it and GM would of designed it with no adj in them.

Again, they are made to adjust (and the reason GM makes them to adjust) is when they sag. I have a pushbar on mine and it sits as high as one without. The front end, if adjusting the torsion bars, needs a longer set of shocks (due to the longer travel it will have), but if only adjusted when the front end needs it, doesn't need longer shocks because you are only adjusting to stock again. I wouldn't do it even if the dealer adjusts them. I would much rather buy the Truxx kit and gain the level as the kit was designed. Not trying to sway anyone here, just stating what I would do. If you have done it, hope it works out for you without any problems down the road. meaning premature wear of the front end.

There won't be any premature wear of the front end components because all you are doing is changing the normal ride position within the range of suspension travel. None of the parts are being manipulated to operate outside of thier design parameters. Reguardless of the lift method, lifting keys or turning the adjusters, they all just relocate the ride hieght. About the only way to gain lift without changining any of the factory settings to your suspension is to cut it off the vehicle and physically put space between it and the vehicle. This is expensive, and typically causes steering problems. It also negates the purpose of a lift because you still have huge parts hanging way down low to get hung up, or bashed into stuff.

Honestly guys, do whatever you feel comfortable with...knowing and having worked on trucks for half my life I know that turning the t-bars will not cause any premature wear (as long as it's kept within reason) Shocks will not bottom out because they too are made with more limit than needed stock, I (and alot of others) have hit some hard trails since doing the t-bar lift and have never had our shocks bottom out. I'll throw on a set of rancho's next spring anyway but just because I don't like the feel of the stockers, not for any other reason.

I cranked mine 2 1/2 turns and when the alignment was checked, it was out quite a bit
For what it's worth

alignment could go out after cranking it ...absolutely! Alignment should be done after anything in the suspension is changed.

Well, I cranked on my H2's torsion bars and boy was I disappointed. I only got 4 full turns on the passenger side before the bolt bottomed out (not even 1"). 1 turn equals .2" on the H2. I had already turned the drivers side 6 turns. It looked pretty good. I was so pissed I put it back to stock.