HEAD AND VALVE ISSUE

[size=7]I purchased my 2006 H3 Oct 2005. Since then, it has been in the shop 12xs- for "Head and Cylinder" issues. I've had 2 head replacements already and its in the shop as I speak for possibly the 3rd head replacement. I am pursuing arbitration but already have a case with an attorney. Up to now I thought that I just had a "lemon" but as I continue to read these forums I realize its not just my vehicle and could possibly have a "class action" here. If anyone has anymore information,complaints,etc. Please email me
m_roper@bellsouth.net. Thanks

Same problem here. 2 heads within 12k miles. but at least they are telling me the same thing they told me the first time. Which is I should be all set now. What a line of sh-t. Gm and my dealership have a nasty habit of not being upfront with there customers. I was told in Feb when I had my first repair that they had put in a redisigned head. Only to find out that the new design was not out till april. Another diturbing issue is that all the part numbers are exactly the same as the first repair. If they have redisigned any part wouldn.t you assign a new part number? Gm told me after I brought this to there attention that they do have a service bulletin out on the head change and specifically states no part number change. I have yet to see the bulletin. Should I have faith that a new head got in that vehicle. I don't know. But the bigger question is how do they know if part numbers are exactly the same. Also why would the labor be cut down to 8 hrs from 22 hrs if they haven't seen a bunch of these come in. I called four dealerships Dobles Manchester, Herb Chambers Mass, Long cadillac, ALL have said they have had dozens come in. Small sample big problem. Service manager at Herb Chambers actually told me that earlier than march they would recieve the same head and then send it out to be machined. Also he was told by GM to expect them back. Whether they have actually fixed the problem or not I truly do not know. But what I do know is that people are still having this problem. The guy who was in front of me in the rental car line was in for the same issue only his first repair came at 31k. so in my book No one is completely clear of this problem. in this post alone we have a grand six heads that proves this is more than just random.

Not to make less of your guy's problems..I feel for ya's

But I was at my dealer today and asked this very question...About if they've had any H3's in for head valve issues...The service manager told me straight in the eye that they have had not one single H3 in for that problem..Although he was aware of a rash of them out East...Maybe a trend to that...But my dealership has sold over 1000 H3's since they started getting them spring of 05.

Hi Dennis, Have you seen any service bulletin that states new designed head with no part # change. This is what my service manager is telling me . He also gave me a date on this of 4-1-06. I cannot find it anywhere. Why no part # change? Why find a shorter labor time if there is only a few. Also I heard they do not have to drop the oil pan for this repair. This all just seems odd. GM swears up and dowm that there is nothing wrong with the head and the problem is rare. If so why redisign the part? I personally have gone to the better business bureau on this but I have also put in a complaint to the fed trade commision and nhtsa. All i want is a straight answer. I would absolutely love to talk to you on a land line. you have alot of knowledge and maybe you could help me understand just who and what is going on here.

Thank you
Barry

the head problem was due to a bad valve guide casting. The part number is still the same cause it's the same part, just is bieng cast differently now. BTW...didn't you post this question on another forum and got an answer there...why post it over here to? Honestly if it is the head issue it would be the soft valve guide issue that was fixed in March, if you have had two head replacements then your dealer must still be using heads made from before the March fix was made. Also the head issue would take a good amount of miles for the soft valve guides to wear to the point that it would cause problems...don't see how you have gone through 3 already.

That's a question I wish I could answer. I can only go by what I am told by GM. GM told me the head was a new design. I personally have heard that it was the valve guides. GM also told me there is a bulletin that states head has new design part change not needed. If you would like to look up this bulletin they told me it came out on 4-1-06. Maybe if you had this problem you would not be as skeptical as I am.

If it is the valve guides , without a part number change how does anyone know what is old and new? If they do know why would they put the old castings in. Makes no sense.

thanks for the reply...It's quite ironic that we have been told the same exact thing but still can not get a straight answer. I picked up my h3 monday before last, after they kept it for 2 weeks..said they had to make an "adjustment" on the 2nd headreplacement. I had it 3 hours and my check engine light was back on, it was very sluggish..etc. I brought it back on Tuesday, they said a vacuum hose was loose, picked it up on Wed., drove it almost home and the check engine light came on again with the same symptoms, but this time I drove it straight to an attorney. My H3 has been in shop now over 12 times with "head, valve, cylinder" issues. After speaking with an attorney we decided to pursue arbitration before we go ahead and sue them. We have more than enough for the "Lemon Law" to kick in. This attorney is drooling for this case. For someone to say its happening only on the "east" is terribly wrong. We are in New Orleans and our dealership alone has seen more than they wish of this same issue. I'm going to see what they have to offer and if not then I'll go from there....along with anyone else who wants to join in. We have also been told that ALL 2006 H3's will at some point have to replace theirs. It does make since about the mileage thing though. I have 30,000 miles already on mine. Well, I'll keep you updated on any information I get and hope you'll do the same.

Who told you that all 2006 H3's will eventually have this problem? If this is true, that is really troublesome to me. I already have 21k miles on my H3 after about a year, and have had absolutely no engine problems, even after switching back and forth between 93 and 87 octane a few times. You should definitely keep us posted as to what happens. If somebody from GM told you they will ALL go bad eventually, that is a HUGE deal. That should be grounds for a recall. Thanks for letting us know the details.

I am also persuing this. Since GM will not step up to the plate I have put in claims not only to the BBB, But also FEd trade commision and the national highway and safety commision. As for the latter 2 The only thing I will get from them is maybe some research on this issue to prove that the issue is more widespread than GM is willing to admit. I still can"t understand why A valve guide would be changed or cast different as someone stated on this thread and not change the part number. Regardless of it being the same part who really knows what is going in your vehicle. Just be aware of this. It may seem as though this problem occurs within a cetain mileage but I have actually talked with more than a couple of people over the 30,000 mark that have come in for the first repair of the head. Which also poses another question. If the story they are telling me is true, and the early builds and heads with the valve guides before 4-1-06. Which they are telling me is the problem not a few bad heads. Every vehicle with these valve heads will most likely fail down the line. So why isn't GM stepping up with a recall for all early build dates and replacing those valve guides. Instead they are waiting for them to fail. And hoping maybe some will last past the factory warranty then the repair is on you. They have admitted to the Valve guide problem with these early builds. NOT A BAD BUNCH OF HEADS!!!

quote:

If the story they are telling me is true, and the early builds and heads with the valve guides before 4-1-06. Which they are telling me is the problem not a few bad heads. Every vehicle with these valve heads will most likely fail down the line. So why isn't GM stepping up with a recall for all early build dates and replacing those valve guides.

So, who are THEY? Are THEY the dealer mechanics, the managers, or customer service reps from GM? My build date is in 8-05 so I should be OK, but I'm worried about the rest of them. You are right. It's not fair if there is a known problem that may not be caught until after the warranty is void.

For the most part, it seems recalls are issued when the problem poses a threat to a persons safety. Since this isn't really a problem that poses as a threat to personal safety, I wouldn't be surprised if there was no recall ever issued and it is just left as a TSB. Since recalls are the result of a lawsuit, the only way I see this being a recall is if a class action suit is filed against them for something. But if they are providing you with replacement vehicles for free and also doing the service for free, they seem to have thier bases covered on a law suit unless you decided to sue for the emotional strife they have caused you due to hummer separation...

First of all it is a safety issue. At least I was told that when I called the national highway and safety department. Secondly I am being told by GM and my service manager. They have both stated the same thing. Of course this is after I pose the question and GM contacts the service manager to get the story straight. Then they are both in agreement. It is quite amusing that no one new there was a new part without a different part number until I brought it up. Now all of a sudden there is a service bulletin out on it that states just that. Funny that it has been out so long and my service manager did not know about it. I just spoke with my service manager yesterday to get the bulletin # so I could confirm this. the Doc# is 1845907. and is dated 7-6-06.
It states that as of 4-1-06 The new heads will have harder valve seats and also states no new part #. I personally have yet to see this. I will investigate it but if there is anyone on this forum who could pull this up I would appreciate this. Then there is the question of, if updated 4-1 why bulletin it at 7-6? also if you bulletin and change the seats on 4-1 aren't you saying that before that build date you are likely to have an issue at some point. Now the question is , is the fix a true fix? Only time will tell if they have corrected the problem and you guys and gals will be the first to know if someone's build date is after 4-1 and has the same problem. My first fix was in Feb the second in Sept. So if they are telling me the truth I shuold not have a problem. But i did hear that I had a new design head after the first repair and have no reason to believe them on the second. Just seems really fishy to me. My service manager states that on the first repair tecnical assistance told him it was a redisigned head and this is why it took so long to get the parts. First repair took 2 weeks. second took 4 days. If they would be upfront with me and told me that they were having a problem when I first had it in i would have understood. Instead they tell me I got a new designed head (Which did not exist ) and I should not have any problems. Same thing they are telling me on the second repair. You tell me why I should believe him or GM. Personally I think GM is downplaying the problem and are putting the same heads in the vehicle and hope they will last. GM does not want this problem to get out of hand. As I have stated previously, I have called 4 other dealerships and all state they have had at least 16 back for this problem. Suddenly this number per sold at dealership is not as small as it seems. There is no doubt that as time goes on you will see more and more of this happening until GM owns up to it and takes the cars before they get to that point. For them it is all about the mighty dollar. they could care less about customer loyalty. You Won't see me or my family buy another GM product. Not because of Vehicle. I know that S--t happens, but because of them not being truthful and doing what is right for there customer.

Add me to the list... 5 week old H3 been back to service as many times.... finally was told today the latest issue is the Valve & Cylinder issue...

According to service, mine is the 4th H3 to be done...

God I miss my Land Rover....it is scary when a Land Rover is more reliable than my H3...


Beachman

quote:

ORIGINAL: beachman

Add me to the list... 5 week old H3 been back to service as many times.... finally was told today the latest issue is the Valve & Cylinder issue...

According to service, mine is the 4th H3 to be done...

God I miss my Land Rover....it is scary when a Land Rover is more reliable than my H3...


Beachman

Hey Beachmam; what were your symptoms that made you bring it in? What was the H3 doing, or sounding like?

Check engine light first... then sluggish... then at stop/park, the idle was awful... this all within a span of two days.

It has been in twice for 4 wheel drive failures and once for stability errors...

The service department has been cool, they are sending someone to get it and bringing it back to me when it is fixed...really can't complain, except that I want to drive it...

I talked to the sevice tech guys at the off road event, while we were eating lunch. they said they have each done several of the following: heads, rear diffs, front diffs, 4wd actuator motors.

I figure it's only a matter of time before some of which will need to be done to our H3, given the law of averages. However, I do hope that it solves the issue for good. I'm willing to endure a little to keep the H3. I like it so far, and if I can get through any tough spots, I'd like to end up on the other side with a reliable vehicle, that I enjoy.

Just so we keep the faith...I called my dealer friend and asked him again if he's seen any head issues yet?..NOPE!..And I'm glad to hear that too..I know this guy really well BECAUSE of my ex-Land Rover and we take in a NASCAR event every once in a while in Dallas/Ft Worth too....So I know he's not blowin smoke up my skirt...

Anyway, I had to mention this, because the same issue is still going on with these engines scattered about, but not everywhere..I really feel for you guys with these annoying problems and hopefully they'll be fixed right and soon..Thank goodness for the warranty...Also remember, 3 times for the same problem, it automatically turns yellow.

Hi Gang-

I am new here - and I hate for my first post to be about this issue - but I figured I'd better chime in. Two weeks ago, at about 6900 miles, our H3 began to exhibit the symptoms others have described in this thread. Sluggish, very rough cold starts and rough idle - along with a check engine light.

Checked the owners' manual - and I chalked up the warning to a bad tank of gas (we were on a road trip and I used a different brand from what I normally used). Ran through that tank and filled it up again with the usual brand, check engine light went off - but rough running continued. Next day, the check engine light went back on - and it flashed a few times at stoplights. Figured it was not the gas - and it was time to bring it in. Called Onstar diagnostics and started laughing. The operator tells me I need to stop driving the vehicle immediately and have it towed to the nearest dealer. Report they had was an engine misfire condition. Finally got it into the dealer and...

Sure enough - head and valve issue -- along with cams that had surface rust / pitting on them -- along with a bad timing chain tensioner. On a vehicle with 6900 miles? Build date was 03/06.

Parts needed to be ordered - truck was in the shop for two weeks and I just got it back tonight. Seems to running OK - and no leaks at this point - which they told me to watch for. Will continue to keep an eye on it. To the dealer's credit - they (at least seem) to be straight about everything, provided another H3 as a loaner vehicle, etc. Service director at dealership stated that between their two dealerships in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area they have done 30 of these repairs on 2006 H3s.

Time will tell - but this was really disappointing. First GM vehicle we've owned - and candidly we love the truck - but this was a real bummer. Will keep you posted on the progress - and if something else happens. This business I'm reading of multiple heads being replaced is really concerning.

My wife and I couldn't do much except laugh about this and shake our heads. When we purchased, we were deciding between the H3 and a Toyota FJ Cruiser. Truly sad, but now we're questioning if we made the right choice. We really like the H3, but have lost a lot of confidence in the vehicle at this point.

Thanks - and I look forward to contributing to the forum - hopefully on more positive topics. Bottom line is this issue appears to not be isolated to a particular region - and is pretty prominent up in the midwest.

Put me on the list. Just over 30k. What was the lawyer’s name? I will take mine in tomorrow and see what they tell me. My engine light is on and engine idles rough.

I can tell you it's not going to do much good to get a lawyer involved at this time. The dealer will fix the problem so you end up with no case. The right thing to do is send a report to the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation. I went through this with a motorcycle problem. Once the NHTSA gets enough of these reports the manufacturer will narrow down the effected group of trucks and do a recall and may even extend your warenty. It is a safty issue when it stops giving you the power you need to get across the intersection, train tracks, freeway on ramp.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Good Advise!

Well it's official, they are replacing the head. The service guy explained that this is his 3rd replacement at his dealership. They should do a recall. When I purchased my 96 Toyota Tacoma they did a recall on the head gasket. I can respect a recall but not when one is keeping quiet in trying to keep an image. Also I complaint about having trouble shifting into 4th gear between 2000-25000 rpm's and the service guy explained that It will need some seals replaced to include some drive shaft parts and broken gears inside? I'm thinking hard on slapping the For Sale badge on it? Maybe A lawyer will get a recall done on it?

I got my Hummer back... 3 days later --- the service manager explained they had to put a new designed head in... whatever... It is running okay, but now makes a large rattling noise on the right front side, weird enough, doesnt happen when someone sits in the passenger's seat.

I told my service manager and salesperson, that if this truck breaks while i am on the beach fishing, i will l let the sea take it away...

Disgruntled H3 owner...

Sounds to me like the got the exhaust pipe up against something underneath..need to take it back and have them find the rattle..You should have also got and extended warranty on the engine too.