H3 Hummer Performance Intake Systems - Page 3

If I didn't think it was worth it I wouldn't have emailed you about it...

This is one GREAT FREAKING' Product.....

Not only did it improve my performance, it increased the length and girth of my pipe as well. 

Oh wait, I may have this confused with another deal.  Uh....One that a friend of a friend once tried.

Guy's name might have been ZYNE or something like that.

Don't you know those products are a scam, if you rub a cream on your privates wouldn't your hands get bigger too, and how is a pill going to change your DNA and make just one part of your body grow.  Save your money Gunner and Zyne and use it to what really matters hair plugs.

Note to self:  Offer organ cream and hair plugs with next intake system. 

A couple suggestions:
 
1)  A plastic or nylon 6/6 material for the resonator bypass tube won't heatsoak as much as the metal tube.  The heat from the exhaust manifold rises right up to the tube and will heat up the tube when sitting after running.  The slow moving air can get heated while traveling through the tube and the PCM won't know about the warmer air because the IAT is near the filter in the MAF.  This can create some knock retard/temporary timing reduction until the tube cools.
 
2)  Remove the ridges in the air box base.  It's a PITA but the ridges obstruct air flow.
 
3)  A fast tapering cone filter may work better than the stock style cylindrical filter since the incoming air has a better approach angle to the filter.
 
4)  Just some info - The 3.5L air box lid has ridges on the underside.  The 3.7 L air box lid has a panel that sits below the ridges to help air flow to the top of the filter.

The metal pipe actually picks up far less heat than I anticipated.  There is insignificant heat soak as the intake air travels through the pipe to the throttle body quickly.
It is just barely warm to touch after hours of running the engine.  In stop and go traffic on a high heat day, your intake cannot do anything for you in that situation anyway.
 
Myth busted! 

Park the H3 for a 1/2 hour and see how hot the tube gets.  I'm not trying to knock your product.  I just walked down this path before.  Removing the hood seal near the windshield helps get heat out and reduces heat soak too.

I have,  November thru last week the "heat soak" you speak of does not exist, because we just busted 50F for the first time last week. 
 
I will of course check it when we see 60, then 70, then 80, while parked on asphalt.....I have an infrared laser non contact thermometer gun. 
A 16Ga. steel pipe is not going to crack, or have small pieces break off and potentially get sucked in the intake, like the plastic tube making competition, which has lead them to have product recalls. 
 
If it ain't steel, it ain't real! 

How about ceramic coating, coated inside and out, no worries of heat soak then.
Just had the exhaust on my four wheeler coated, it's nice and shiny now and cooler
to the touch.
 

I have had headers and bike pipes ceramic coated, keeps heat under control, and helps in the corrosion department.
 
Fact is, with an intake, not needed.  Gets warm at most.  There is always gonna be somebody who says......oooh that metal intake might get hotter than plastic?...
just not the case.  The steel intake pipe is not in contact with any metal, so the heating you have to deal with is mostly radiant heat, with some convection heat transfer by the underhood air.... the engine and exhaust radiate heat, the air gets hot under the hood, everything under the hood gets heated, plastic, rubber, metal, belts, wiring, battery etc...  No rocket science there. 
 
Start moving, and the air movement begins to remove heat.
 

What about some type of insulation that could be wrapped on the outside of the metal pipe? If your that worried about it, do they make some high temp foil covered insulation?

I thought I was doing well with mileage and trying to stick to highway-only driving, but my last half-tank I ended up mostly driving stop and go so I didn't really get anything better.  I got around 18 MPG.  It's unrealistic for me to think I'm going to be doing any full-time highway driving anytime soon, so I can say it seems like the mileage increased, but I do usually get around 200 miles by the time it hits half-way.  This time I got to about 230 and then hit the stop-and-go stuff.  So based on that, yes I would say my mileage is increasing.   It's obvious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trey124

What about some type of insulation that could be wrapped on the outside of the metal pipe? If your that worried about it, do they make some high temp foil covered insulation?

 
 
You could wrap it in heat tape if you want, but it is not needed.  The pipe DOES NOT GET HOT!!!!  It is an intake, not an exhaust pipe.    You cab grab that pipe the second you shut off the 3 and pop open the hood, warm is what you will find, just like the air filter box, silicone couplers, brake fluid reservior, battery box..... I think you get the point.
 
There will always be somebody, like they did in this thread, that says they think a metal intake pipe will get hotter than a plastic.  Plastic, metal, rubber.........
whatever, all gets heated by the same source to nearly the same temperature.  Great observation, just not a fact as it relates to an intake for a passenger vehicle
like the H3.  Now, if the pipe were bolted to the engine by a metal bracket in some way, then it would be constantly heated by that metal to metal contact and
it could possibly be an issue?  
 
So no worries here.     
 
 

Just in case, can you come up with a reservior and a cooling manifold to wrap around the tube  for those balmy 75 degree days, then we can stop and get a bag of ice at every corner to make it to the next light?

oooh that metal intake might get hotter than plastic!

The steel tube has to conduct more heat than a plastic tube - its just physics. The real question is how much heat gets conducted to the air with a metal tube. While you are moving, there is probably not too much heating of the air through the tube - perhaps 5 F??? more than a plastic tube.

My issue was the heat coming up from the exhaust manifold while you are parked. The steel has a higher thermal conductivity, specific heat, and mass than a plastic tube. The metal tube has to heatsoak more than a plastic tube and the heat in the metal tube mostly has to go into the incoming air. Take the H3 out after sitting for a while and the incoming air will be heated more than normal until thermal stabilization is reached.

GM's performance intake uses a metal tube, K&N uses a metal shield and doesn't seal off engine compartment air off, the Airaid intake uses a metal extender on the stock air box base and doesn't seal off, AEM uses a metal pipe and a metal shield and doesn't seal off, etc. Heat is an issue with practically every intake except perhaps the Volant which I didn't test.

I'm not saying your product is bad. I'm pointing a potential for heatsoaking.

Again this is a purist opinion from someone who has designed at least 5 intakes for the H3 and was sent intake products from manufacturers for free to test and report back to them. If you look at the H3's programming, the I5 is very sensitive to engine coolant temperature and inlet air temperature. Did I mention I can dyno the H3?

Here are a couple other suggestions:

1) The I5 wiggles a lot, you need to make sure that you have good flexibilty in your setup to decouple the vibrating motor and the fixed air box. The flexibility will limit the torque on the air box and cut down on some conducted noise.

2) The colorado has another port in the intake for the FPR. Perhaps you can add another hose barb to the tube and a rubber cap to make one intake compatible with the H3 and the colorado/canyon.

CHP, how about providing us with some IAT data. Stock and any of the aftermarket kits you have tested.
It would be interesting to see the difference between stock and aftermarket kits.
 
Doc, I threw that out for anyone worried about the temps. I know it is usually used on exhaust parts, but
would help insulate the intake tube. Probably overkill like you stated. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: 08ALPHA

CHP, how about providing us with some IAT data. Stock and any of the aftermarket kits you have tested.
It would be interesting to see the difference between stock and aftermarket kits.

 
Yeah...................in your own thread.         

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChevyHighPerformance

oooh that metal intake might get hotter than plastic!

The steel tube has to conduct more heat than a plastic tube - its just physics. The real question is how much heat gets conducted to the air with a metal tube. While you are moving, there is probably not too much heating of the air through the tube - perhaps 5 F??? more than a plastic tube.

My issue was the heat coming up from the exhaust manifold while you are parked. The steel has a higher thermal conductivity, specific heat, and mass than a plastic tube. The metal tube has to heatsoak more than a plastic tube and the heat in the metal tube mostly has to go into the incoming air. Take the H3 out after sitting for a while and the incoming air will be heated more than normal until thermal stabilization is reached.

I'm not saying your product is bad. I'm pointing a potential for heatsoaking.

Again this is a purist opinion from someone who has designed at least 5 intakes for the H3 and was sent intake products from manufacturers for free to test and report back to them. If you look at the H3's programming, the I5 is very sensitive to engine coolant temperature and inlet air temperature. Did I mention I can dyno the H3?

 
I note your observations, and thank you for your interest.  I have not, nor will I, lose a moment of sleep over heatsoaking issues with AirDocIntake systems.
 
The steel tube has to conduct more heat than a plastic tube - its just physics.  Says who???    You mentioned: has to "conduct" heat more than plastic.  You hit your own nail on the head.  Heat is transferred by many means, conductive heat transfer is not one of them here.
 
There is probably not too much heating of the air through the tube - perhaps 5 F??? more than a plastic tube.  Great theory, but no data?    Have you measured or calculated the velocity of the intake charge at all rpms given the combustion of the 3.5L and 3.7L............if you have, then you know how long that air is in the
13 7/8" long metal tube at 2000 rpm and above.  Let me use the technical term ....not very friggin long!    I have done a wee bit of testing (I did not fall off the turnip cart yesterday) and when comparing the MAF input reading from the H3 to the throttle body end of the AirDoc pipe (I made a sensor from a second bosch MAF), I could not reliably measure any heat increase beyond margin of error (3/10ths of one degree) at any rpm over 2000, but let us assume it is one or two degrees?   I'm thinking there is a lot of theory going out the window??? 

Anybody doing bracket racing, 1/8 mile powder puff racing, F.A.S.T. drag series, any qualifying time runs, any racing with their Hummer?   No, hummmm........heatsoaking seems to be irrelevant.   
If it were, wonder what that big old honking stock black plastic throttle body resonator box sitting right up top over the head and rocker cover that is bolted by brackets in contact with the engine soaks up????  Compared to a 3.5" metal pipe flowing air from outside the engine compartment directly to the throttle body isolated from any contact with the engine by 4 ply silicone couplers?
 
Let me make it abundantly clear.  The reason GM, and most intake kit makers use rubber and/or plastic is because it is CHEAP.  Plain and simple. 
AirDocIntakes uses steel  because it is far superior in strength, durability, function, and it looks cool too!
 
Oh, I almost forgot, I made a few intakes for the 06/07 H3 (11 different types if I count my test pipe with 2nd MAF) not counting Colorado/Canyon intakes and the 2008 H3 I5 in testing, and I have found the vibration culprit (did not have to use an old piece of Comaro coupler

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChevyHighPerformance

2) The colorado has another port in the intake for the FPR. Perhaps you can add another hose barb to the tube and a rubber cap to make one intake compatible with the H3 and the colorado/canyon.

Actually the FPR port is only on 04 and 05 model years.  They went to a different system that eliminates the fuel return lines in 06 to qualify for LEV for evaporative emissions, which was carried over to the 3.7 in 07.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I just googled "plastic heat soak" and found the following:

Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power

The rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material

For example, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.

So we can now put this heat sink issue to rest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc Olds
Yeah...................in your own thread.         

 
Sorry about that Doc. Just trying to show theres not much difference in the IAT's. I have an open air filter on my Lightning and theres not a noticeable difference. Don't have enough interest to start a new thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VTCanyon06


I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I just googled "plastic heat soak" and found the following:

Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power

The rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material

For example, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.

 
Thank you VTC...............my point all along.  Myth busted! 
If you do the math, my 8th grader can, and I have,....... ooohhh that metal pipe can get hot, don't mean chit!
 
I didn't bother with what 3" diameter pipe material is used in the almost $400.00 GM performance system either. 
 
As I have said, plastic is used because it is cheap.   It ain't real if it ain't steel! 
 
 

Trey; now we can. 
 
 
08Alpha;  my comment was not directed at you, only your suggestion.     And ...it was a good suggestion for a new thread BTW.
 
 

No feelings hurt here Doc, my skin is a little thicker than that.
Can't wait for V8 release, quit arguing and start shipping.

              This weekend is easter, so I will temporarily be SUPER FAMILY MAN!  I can't even pull off working late this friday either. 
 
Oh well, there is always next week.