difference betwen stock filter & K&N filter

Hi fellow H3 owners. I was using the search feature to find out about a question: What would be the advantages by changing the stock filter for a K&N one.
2007 Birch white, Lux package, sunroof,towing package.
purchace the H3 last saturday.

If you are talking about the flat panel type filters, the difference is the medium material.  K&N uses a gauze type fabric impregnatated with oil to capture the dirt.  It has less restriction thus a few more horsepower. The trade off is the OEM Paper filter traps more dirt and takes better care of your engine.  Also give thought to the larger conical filters like the K&N.

My H3 did not come with a panel filter.  Mine came with a paper cone filter.  I switched to the K&N one about 3 months after I purchased it, but the problem is you have to clean the oil off the resistors of the Mass Air-Flow sensor once in a while, or they will produce inaccurate readings.  The oil from the K&N filter starts to build up on the sensor.  If you don't, over time the MAF will become so dirty your H3 will start to run bad.

This topic is old..but I will still add my 2 cents..
 
On my H3 the stock filter is round and cylindrical and also oil coated...But I have the K&N CAI now and I feel since K&N has been aroud for a very long time in this type of business, that they know what they are doing..So I think the protection is good if not better than the paper filters and will allow more air flow compared to the paper ones when they are dirty...On the K&N, Cleaning and re-oiling is where people get into trouble by over oiling the filter...So I gree though if you are off roading in real dust conditions a paper filter maybe better..but not to worry aboput a K&N in everyday driving...
 
Bottom line..you only need to buy one K&N for the life of the car, whereas, you will spend 10 times that amount of one K&N to keep replacing your stock filter every year.

Thanks for the reply Dvader. The one I talking about is the cilinder looking one on the K&N site. More or less how many HP more. I donot want to use the CAI system because it makes to much noice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dennis

This topic is old..but I will still add my 2 cents..

On my H3 the stock filter is round and cylindrical and also oil coated...But I have the K&N CAI now and I feel since K&N has been aroud for a very long time in this type of business, that they know what they are doing..So I think the protection is good if not better than the paper filters and will allow more air flow compared to the paper ones when they are dirty...On the K&N, Cleaning and re-oiling is where people get into trouble by over oiling the filter...So I gree though if you are off roading in real dust conditions a paper filter maybe better..but not to worry aboput a K&N in everyday driving...

Bottom line..you only need to buy one K&N for the life of the car, whereas, you will spend 10 times that amount of one K&N to keep replacing your stock filter every year.

 
Dennis: Have you ever checked your MAF resistors? If they are black, you should clean them.  Every K&N filter I have had (about 5 on various cars) has caused the MAF resistors to accumulate caked-on oil.  The H3 is a little tricky because the oil makes them look like they should be black, when in reality they are a silver color.  I use rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip to clean the resistors and the H3 usually runs better.  I'm thinking about going back to a stock filter, or one of the newer premium dry filters.  I'm starting to like my quiet ride more then my power.

And just so you know, I DO remember us having this conversation before, BEFORE you post a link to another post from when we had this conversation, and I remember you saying your MAF was clean, but I would take a Q-tip to it, DRY, and see if anything comes off of it.  I  bet it's black after you do so.

I'll check it this weekend again..But yes it was clean after a year with the K&N on...I'll check it again and give it a squirt of contact cleaner too for good measure.
 
 

I wouldn't use contact cleaner if I were you.  Besides it being a liquid based oil and not a solid, the pressure from the spray may break the resistor lead.  They are very sensitive to bending.  I take it back; I would use 70% isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swap and very gentaly go over the resistor itself.  As I said, mine looked normal, until I found out they weren't supposed to be black   It's hard to tell the oil is on there because there are/were no caked-on dirt particles or dust sticking to it, so it looked clean.  I'm also going to check it today or this weekend.  I may just replace it with a stock filter.  My H3 has alot of miles on it already and I'm starting to get a little weary about putting things on there that may minutely cause engine problems.  I'm also looking into the extended warranty (well, Mike is looking into it for me).  I'm willing to shell out 2K if it means I'm under warranty for another 5 years with no worries.

I use this stuff and it works fine without actually touching anything and bending the leads..No oils or residue

there are plenty of filters out there that give you the airflow of a K&N but without having to use oil...if I were to switch I would definetly opt for a dry one.

Dennis......that CRC stuff is tops..........their power lube too.  Can I chime in here for a moment.  I have a K&N in everything.  I had 90k on the filter in the wife's old Poncho when sold.......never MAP air intake problem one.  My 1995 Jimmy, with a modified cold air intake thru the factory box.....160k on the one filter, never a Mass air problem uno.  If after you clean them and over oil, I suppose it could lead to oil residue or particulates up in the intake system?  There are other brands that are similar.  I would also think your actual HP gain with just the filter (not a CAI) would be pretty small 3, 4 or 5????  It could help in the long term with mileage, possibly more so if you keep it clean.  I try and clean mine every third motor oil change, 4th for sure.  For the price, and no need to buy further filters, just an occaisional cleaning kit (a kit will clean a filter several times), I opine that it's a good investment.  After years of dirt biking with K&Ns, you will spend a lot of money buying rounds all night and still not convince me paper cleans air better!!!

Doc you are a man after my own heart...well said

They make MAF cleaners designed for this purpose.  From what I've read if you're getting oil on the MAF there has been to much oil applied to the medium.  I got this product at Advance Auto Parts. Same company as Dennis's product.


An interesting read about filters.
http://www.performancemotoroil.com/KN_test.html

http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm#PAPER
 
good reading for this subject.

Allow me to clarify a few things gentlemen  (you know this post will be a book) lol

First off, I did not know they had MAF (not MAP) cleaner.  I'm going to Advance Auto Parts tonight anyway, so I'll look for it.  I've used the CRC stuff in the past, and it's usually the best for the money.  I do like it, but now that I know they make specific MAF cleaner, I will definitely pick a can up tonight.

Secondly, the H3 (I just learned this 2 days ago) has a MAF and a MAP.  MAF is the obvious, but there is a MAP, which is Mass Air Pressure sensor.  I just had this replaced today/yesterday.  I looked the GM code P0106 up on the net, in addition to my OBDII scanner coming back with a MAP sensor error.  What I found on numerous sites is that the MAP sensor measure barometric pressure.  Apparently this went bad in my H3 last week.  I don't know if that's pressure within the engine, or a vacuum line, etc, because I'm not that knowledgeable engines in general.  I know how internal combustion works, but I don't know about vacuum hoses and how much psi goes into a cylinder, etc.  All I know is the I-5 has one, and mine went bad   I just thought I'd share for all you gearheads out there.  Now, why you would need to know barametric pressure outside of the engine is beyond me, so I'm assuming it's internal somehow.

The MAF on the other hand (Mass Air Flow sensor) on all 5 of the cars I have bought NEW K&N filters on, has had the oil build-up problem on the resistors, fresh out of the box before any re-oiling ever happened.  Now, that's just a really STRANGE co-incidence, or it's something most people don't notice.  Since all of you are into engines more-so then I, I am believing that it's just been a coincidence more then "the way it is."  I've had one on my '95 Camaro 3.4L, '99 Isuzu Rodeo LS V6, '03 VW Turbo, '93 Honda CBR 600 sportbike, and my now '06 Hummer H3.  Every one of those vehicles had them brand new out of the box, and after about 6 months, had oil build up on the MAF.  I learned the hard way from the Rodeo when I first cleaned it, then knew to watch for it ever since. The build-up was so bad the engine would barely run anymore.  Once I cleaned it and reset the computer, it ran like new.  On my CBR, I had oil residue inside the air filter compartment and on the carb valves, but that could have just been from the engine.  I'm not saying it's supposed to be like that, but it's just been my experience that it's happened.  The only filter I have ever re-oiled was the H3, and I was very careful to not overdue it because of this.  I was even tempted to run it dry, but knew that wouldn't be such a smart idea.

So, anyway, I just wanted to clarify my supposed bad luck with these things and the oil evaporating.  Once in a while I take off my intake hoses and clean those with a rag and blow out the dust and dirt.  So far, there hasn't been much in there.  It's been very clean.  I know there is some new high-performance dry filter out there that is supposed to be better and allow more air then K&N, but I don't remember the name.  I do remember almost buying it though.  The bad thing they were around $45 to $50 and had to be replaced rather then re-charged, but lasted a long time.

You want to know the common Joe difference.  The MAP is sensing air flow, VOLUME, from differnet locations depending on which model auto you are talking about  (disclaimer: I am a GM guy.....everything else is foreign) of the manifold intake pressure on a FUEL INJECTED engine.  Like a high efficiency furnace pressure sensor.  To control fuel mixture.
 
The MAF is sending tempurature data to the truck's computer in order to maintain proper ignition timing.  When hot and muggy, it retards the timing to douse performance/power.  Power makes heat.  This too cross references the volume of air because cool air is more dense.  This ain't rocket science.    When you play with the reading of the two you can effect performance......(chips and PCMs) but the MAF is less critical than the MAP.
 
In closing..........if your damn MAP or MAF are dirty from whatever...........clean em!  I'm still skeptical that the air filter oil is a major culprit.  This is all from a guy that tunes 35-40 year old Oldsmobiles.    LOL

From K&N:
 
Over-oiling
When servicing a K&N filter, take care not to over-oil the element.  Besides impeding air flow, excess oil can migrate into the intake system where it can coat electronic sensors, which some OEM’s claim may hinder the sensors’ operation and result in a repair that will not be covered under warranty.  Although K&N disagrees with such claims, as explained in more detail on this web site, in order to avoid a dispute with an OEM over the denial of a warranty claim, we suggest that you be careful not to over-oil your K&N air filter.  Never saturate the filter.  If oil drips from the filter, wash it and start over.  Use only K&N oil.  For example, an E-1500 filter has 92.4-inches of surface area requiring 1.707 fluid ounces of oil.  Follow oiling instructions included with your filter or refer to the instructions listed here

quote:

ORIGINAL: HummerGuy

I wouldn't use contact cleaner if I were you.  Besides it being a liquid based oil and not a solid, the pressure from the spray may break the resistor lead.  They are very sensitive to bending.  I take it back; I would use 70% isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swap and very gentaly go over the resistor itself.  As I said, mine looked normal, until I found out they weren't supposed to be black   It's hard to tell the oil is on there because there are/were no caked-on dirt particles or dust sticking to it, so it looked clean.  I'm also going to check it today or this weekend.  I may just replace it with a stock filter.  My H3 has alot of miles on it already and I'm starting to get a little weary about putting things on there that may minutely cause engine problems.  I'm also looking into the extended warranty (well, Mike is looking into it for me).  I'm willing to shell out 2K if it means I'm under warranty for another 5 years with no worries.

Well here is what mine looks like right out of the pipe...Spotless and clean as a whistle it seems..no oily or sooty residue in the pipe either...It's been 7000 or 8000 miles since I last checked it when you and I had this SAME conversation then...Seems this POS K&N is doing a pretty good job of filtering after all...Conclusion: YOU ARE OVER OILING YOUR FILTERS!!!

BTW: there are two little hair fine Thermistors to clean...So I gave them both a good doucheing anyway..

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful!  I second the conclusion reached by our fearless administrator. 
 
I did two things after work today.  Stopped by the Murray's Auto and just looked at a K&N in a box off the shelf.  It did seem to have a little extra oil on the flat rubber end and mounting circle.  Nothing major, but maybe worth wiping off b4 installing.  I didn't remember mine being a little extra oily when I bought it, but I wasn't scrutinizing then.
 
When I got home after doing the wifey list, I pulled my filter out and also looked at the sensor in the intake pipe.  Dennis, I have to say, mine is darn near as beautifully clean and pristine as yours.  Per the info from K&N, thanks mfish, I will be a careful filter oiler from now on.  Filter oiler anonymous chapter starting soon.
 
Hello Brandon07, thanks for starting this thread of overkill on the air filter and the issue of oil, but not to over oil.  It is amazing how much info the members here can amass on any given topic.  Great forum all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dennis

Conclusion: YOU ARE OVER OILING YOUR FILTERS!!!

OK Dennis.  I'm going to say this ONE MORE TIME, and then I'm going to come to OK and put finger prints ALL over your H3

Please, read the following CAREFULLY "The MAF on the other hand (Mass Air Flow sensor) on all 5 of the cars I have bought NEW K&N filters on, has had the oil build-up problem on the resistors, fresh out of the box before any re-oiling ever happened."

I hope this clarifies some things for you  as you always like to bring to my attention my lack reading skills sometimes........ touche (if that's even spelled right )

So, let's just ALL agree that I have just had BAD luck with the filters being over-oiled right from the factory.  Can we please say this would be the LOGICAL conclusion here?  PLEASE?

And Doc, THANKS for clarifying .  As I said, I never heard of a MAP until the past week.  I'll tell you what though, I'm getting awsome mileage now that there is a new one in there.  I got to work today and at 1/4 tank I was at 120 miles on the Odometer.  Pretty damn good compared to before.

Okay Mikey..before I come to ILL and put a finger up your.......nose....You must be adding extra oil just because it's how you are...
 
And they are Thermistors

Dennis:  Don't you think it would be hard for me to add oil WHEN I DIDN'T HAVE ANY!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
 
 The first one I ever re-oiled was his H3 one, and I actually hardly put any on there because I knew what would happen.  Thank you for your sincere confidence in my ability to be honest.  It's most riteous and noble of you

You know of course..I'm just messing with you...right?

 Thanks for all the information from Dennis, Dvader and others.
So the conclution is that using a K&N filter will increase the HP by maybe 4 or 5 horses at the most. What about using a CAI system without installing the free flowing muffler or cat back system, . I drive a Avalanche 1500  with a K&N force induction system and free flowing muffler, the wife does not like the noise.
So the question is how much improvement verses the loudness of intake. Thanks in advance.