diesel or alternative fuel modifications

Does anybody have experience with, or know of someone with experience, converting an H2 to diesel or a flexible fuel motor (to run E85 gasoline)?

I am very interested in something like this, particularily the flexible fuel option. The local dealer stated that it wasn't an official option, and they hadn't done it, but they couldn't say that it COULDN'T be done.

GB

I'm not an expert on ethanol fuels (e85) but it is being done in other car manufactures. The fuel system has to be such that the ethanol won't eat on the various metals and seals within. The engine has to be tuned accordingly and the Injectors have to be a special build too.

It ain't difficult for them to make cars for flex fuel..It's the oil industry that is the hold up...Ethanol is pretty much a regional product right now..you'll Find more of it in the northern plain States..Iowa, Nebraska, etc.

Just think..If we the US could build more ethanol burning engines and diesels that burn Bio-diesel fuel (soybean, or peanut, or sunflower, etc) We could tell OPEC to take their oil and stuff it....Right now, Brazil is 85% to 90% oil independent, because they make their fuel (ethanol) out of sugar cane...Just imagine all the rich farmers the US would have if the US would go this way.

Thats very interesting, Dennis, about Brazil. i'm not an expert on these things... but my interest was aroused when i caught the hummer bug.

I found a local shop that claims to have a conversion kit to convert the h2 motor (also found in various GM trucks) to E-85 compatible. Apparently mileage suffers a bit, but power is retained more or less.

My H2 arrives tomorrow, and i'm going to talk to them and ask for some customer references... i'll post the results.

Here in Norway H2:s (and other trucks) have been converted for many years.
Cleaner, cheaper( over 59% !) and politically correct !
The engine starts on gas, at 50 degrees celsius it switches over to propan automatically.

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Here in Norway H2:s (and other trucks) have been converted for many years.
Cleaner, cheaper( over 59% !) and politically correct !
The engine starts on gas, at 50 degrees celsius it switches over to propan automatically.

That is nothing new here..Fork lifts and industrial trucks, UPS delivery trucks, Farm and rural vehicles have all been coverted to Propane...It's the filling stations that are scarce....But you folks in the European sector don't understand the American mentality..We want more power, bigger engines and squealing tires...Propane just doesn't give the getup and go that we like in our muscle cars...It's an American favorite passtime.

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ORIGINAL: Dennis


the American mentality..We want more power, bigger engines and squealing tires...

i'm changing my programming from 87 to 93 octane. can't get 93 octane in CA, but i've talked with other people and it works good even with 87. more power, gotta love that.

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ORIGINAL: shortbus

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ORIGINAL: Dennis


the American mentality..We want more power, bigger engines and squealing tires...

i'm changing my programming from 87 to 93 octane. can't get 93 octane in CA, but i've talked with other people and it works good even with 87. more power, gotta love that.

Awesome!..if it starts pinging a little on 87, try 89...etc, until it stops pinging...We only can get 92 here.

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Here in Norway H2:s (and other trucks) have been converted for many years.
Cleaner, cheaper( over 59% !) and politically correct !
The engine starts on gas, at 50 degrees celsius it switches over to propan automatically.

That is nothing new here..Fork lifts and industrial trucks, UPS delivery trucks, Farm and rural vehicles have all been coverted to Propane...It's the filling stations that are scarce....But you folks in the European sector don't understand the American mentality..We want more power, bigger engines and squealing tires...Propane just doesn't give the getup and go that we like in our muscle cars...It's an American favorite passtime.

All tests done here have given the same result: no loss of power whatsoever in comparison with gas. And if it was the case, one bhp or two in comparison to double the mileage... ...easy math

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ORIGINAL: Misster

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Here in Norway H2:s (and other trucks) have been converted for many years.
Cleaner, cheaper( over 59% !) and politically correct !
The engine starts on gas, at 50 degrees celsius it switches over to propan automatically.

That is nothing new here..Fork lifts and industrial trucks, UPS delivery trucks, Farm and rural vehicles have all been coverted to Propane...It's the filling stations that are scarce....But you folks in the European sector don't understand the American mentality..We want more power, bigger engines and squealing tires...Propane just doesn't give the getup and go that we like in our muscle cars...It's an American favorite passtime.

All tests done here have given the same result: no loss of power whatsoever in comparison with gas. And if it was the case, one bhp or two in comparison to double the mileage... ...easy math

I hate to disagree with you..But that is by the laws of BTUs/unit of fuel..Physically Impossible!..You can't even compare it to Miles per gallon of gasoline vs Miles per units of Propane...Sorry, but that is in the simplest terms, like comparing apples to coconuts...And as far MATH..Shucks, I never mess with that stuff..

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

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ORIGINAL: Misster

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Here in Norway H2:s (and other trucks) have been converted for many years.
Cleaner, cheaper( over 59% !) and politically correct !
The engine starts on gas, at 50 degrees celsius it switches over to propan automatically.

That is nothing new here..Fork lifts and industrial trucks, UPS delivery trucks, Farm and rural vehicles have all been coverted to Propane...It's the filling stations that are scarce....But you folks in the European sector don't understand the American mentality..We want more power, bigger engines and squealing tires...Propane just doesn't give the getup and go that we like in our muscle cars...It's an American favorite passtime.

All tests done here have given the same result: no loss of power whatsoever in comparison with gas. And if it was the case, one bhp or two in comparison to double the mileage... ...easy math

I hate to disagree with you..But that is by the laws of BTUs/unit of fuel..Physically Impossible!..You can't even compare it to Miles per gallon of gasoline vs Miles per units of Propane...Sorry, but that is in the simplest terms, like comparing apples to coconuts...And as far MATH..Shucks, I never mess with that stuff..

Ok, I think you're right. And that I'm right ...
Here the difference in prize is almost 2,5 x in disfavour of gas - therefore the hype for Propane. Total cost /mile is about 50% of gas
Don't take me wrong - I'd rather operate with the gasprices you guys have !!

Good man!..We can always agree to disagree..But like you said, it's the way you look at things in comparison, coupled with the benifit that you are hoping to gain in the comprimise..The reason the US fuel is less expensive than Europe's, is because we don't have high taxes on it by comparison to your's...Our (meaning your's and mine) base price for the fuel factoring out the taxes, are about the same..

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

Good man!..We can always agree to disagree..But like you said, it's the way you look at things in comparison, coupled with the benifit that you are hoping to gain in the comprimise..The reason the US fuel is less expensive than Europe's, is because we don't have high taxes on it by comparison to your's...Our (meaning your's and mine) base price for the fuel factoring out the taxes, are about the same..

Yeah ! Norway is one of the 3 richest countries in the world and has the HIGHEST gas prices of them all !
How many of you guys would drive a Hummer with a gas price of $1.65 ? Pr. liter ?!

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ORIGINAL: Misster

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

Good man!..We can always agree to disagree..But like you said, it's the way you look at things in comparison, coupled with the benifit that you are hoping to gain in the comprimise..The reason the US fuel is less expensive than Europe's, is because we don't have high taxes on it by comparison to your's...Our (meaning your's and mine) base price for the fuel factoring out the taxes, are about the same..

Yeah ! Norway is one of the 3 richest countries in the world and has the HIGHEST gas prices of them all !
How many of you guys would drive a Hummer with a gas price of $1.65 ? Pr. liter ?!

And some of the finest looking girls too

Yeah - we are lucky !
Some of them can be seen here, on my website: http://www.photocrew.no/index.gallery.php?mode=gallery&id=11

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Yeah - we are lucky !
Some of them can be seen here, on my website: http://www.photocrew.no/index.gallery.php?mode=gallery&id=11

My!..Is it always that chilly there?

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Yeah - we are lucky !
Some of them can be seen here, on my website: http://www.photocrew.no/index.gallery.php?mode=gallery&id=11

My!..Is it always that chilly there?

You mean the models are wearing way 2 much clotching...

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ORIGINAL: Misster

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ORIGINAL: Dennis

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ORIGINAL: Misster

Yeah - we are lucky !
Some of them can be seen here, on my website: http://www.photocrew.no/index.gallery.php?mode=gallery&id=11

My!..Is it always that chilly there?

You mean the models are wearing way 2 much clotching...

No..actually just barely enough

You can see the propane filling cap on the left side of the back bumper -barely noticeable...


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In the State of Oklahoma a JOINT venture (no pun intended) between Willy Nelson and Morgan Freeman in a Bio Fuel production refinery in Durant Oklahoma

More HERE

Here's a view of the installation on the engine.




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And here's the link to the producers website:

http://www.prins-lpg.com/

Heres what i've found about the possibilities with H2s and alternative fuels (diesel, E85, propane).


DIESEL. as everybody would know, no such option is available. http://www.stallioncustoms.com/h1h2dudico.html and other places discuss conversions. There are rumors (per local dealer) about such an option being available in ~2008. The duramax engine. On alot of levels, this makes sense. The wildly high torque (and at low RPM) make that engine better suited for offroading, and would open up the possibility of a 5 speed auto with a very low-rpm overdrive cruise option. There's no reason you couldn't get 20mpg on the highway out of an H2, giving that gorgeous hunk of metal a 600 mile cruise range.

But, the H2 is caddy-quiet at lower speeds, and you'd get some diesel rumble-muck for your trouble i'm sure. some people like the sound, some people hate the smell, blah blah blah


E85. The 6 liter GM engine is not available in an E85 version, and isn't easily made compatible with E85 fuel. Basically, the engine is too low in compression for ideal function in combination with E85. The 5.3 liter engine is available in an "alternative fuel" version, with power specs not very much different.

In the H2 the 6 liter engine delivers 316 horsies at 5200 RPM and 360 ftlbs of torque at 4000. In the GMC Sierra (or Tahoe, etc.) the 5.3 liter flex-fuel engine yields 295 horse at 5200 and 335 ftlbs at 4000. The 5.3 and 6 liter motors are based on the small block V8 that's existed for decades, the 6 liter just being bored out a little more. The GMC site (or chevy site) doesn't specify if that power output is as high with E85, and it may or may not be.

Teh 6 liter can be modifed for E85 compatibility, but this is a fairly involved process. Pistons have to be modified for higher compression and the computer system has to be modified.

If you opt to go with the 6 liter re-build or a conversion to a 5.3 liter flex-fuel engine, my understanding is that your warranty will be voided en summe, and you will be at the mercy/leniency of the dealership for warranty work. I've put in a formal request to the dealer for info on engine conversion and warranty work on the 4WD system, & will report back.

The new motor itself could, of cuorse, come with a considerable warranty.



Propane. Propane conversions for many vehicles are possible, including le hummus 2imus. I believe that i located a GM-certified (sop you can keep your warranty) conversion place, but i'll be dipped if i can find my notes about it right now. It was here in Minnesota.



So, in any remote reality, only the propane conversion is possibly sensible from an economic standpoint, as voiding your warranty + a motor re-build and/or new motor + pain of installing a different motor will cost thousands more than you'd ever save by running E85.

but, then a prius isn't economically viable, either. and, frankly, at $2.70/gallon, gas is still pretty darn cheap, cheap enough to really not matter even if you're only getting 13 in normal driving like my H2. but if you want to give an E-terrorist the middle finger for a change & get environmentalistic, this is what i've found out to date.

You guys are still lucky with such a low gas price !
Our belowed government has now seen to a gas price of 12.12 NOK = 1.95 USD - pr LITRE !
I'm paying NOK 4.65 / L for propane and even with a slightly higher consumption I'm easily doing a chaper mileage than a average towncar !!
I have paid the conversion kit after my first year of driving and after that it's all savings

Misster
tell us more about the LPG conversion, one or two of the Aussie Right hand drive 'converters' of new imported H2s are saying they may be able to do this as an option, but no one from what i can find out has actually done the LPG conversion here as yet...but I don't want to be the test pilot either..So, if you don't mind I have some ?s..
1. how long have you had the conversion
2. is it dual fuel, if so what are the sizes/capacities of the 2 tanks
3. what range kms do you get from the LPG
4. does this register in the dash info system..L/100kms
5. what L/100 kms do you get from LPG vs petrol
6. where are the tanks located

In aussie $s LPG 57c/ litre, std petrol ~ $1.20/litre, premium fuel $1.31...

Regards
david
H2D2

Hi !

Don't hesitate if you can get the Prince conversion ! You'll get the best of both worlds...

1. Since April when I bought the car, soon 30000 km ago...
2. Yes I have the original gas tank untouched and the LPG tank is 180 litres - 150 litres effective. I can switch manually from one to another or let it go automatically when one tank is empthy.
3. Driving nicely at 90-100 km/h I get 20L/100 km. In town and when overtaking a bit about 25 L/100 km.
4. Not sure, I dont use it because of the size of error... I do my own notifications.
5. I'm going about the same range with both tanks - but filling the gas tank costs over 2 times the price of the LPG tank !!
6. As I have mentioned earlier, we have some strange rules here in Norway... ...that's why I have the front seats only and rest is gargo space. The LPG tank is located right behind the front seats. Not that big loss of space considering the
savings I'm getting from the LPG ! ( If I'd put inn the back seat, it would cost me about a 1.000.000,- NOK...!! That'll be about $155.000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7. Some gas stations have LPG and there is some LPG stations of their own, in these 3 montsh I've had my H2 I have filled the gas tank once

Happy driving !
Misster